Happy Wednesday! I am delighted to bring you the first! ever! podcast! that Whiskey Jenny edited like a damn genius. My voice sounds slightly weird on this podcast, for reasons neither of us have been able to figure out, but it is not Whiskey Jenny’s fault. It is weird on the raw audio. I messed up something. Who knows. It’s in God’s hands. This episode, we’re talking about media we missed (and caught up) in 2017, and then we are commencing the Hatening by reading Jenn Ashworth’s book A Kind of Intimacy. Whiskey Jenny hated it.
You can listen to the podcast using the embedded player below, or download the file directly to take with you on the go!
Here are the time signatures if you want to skip around.
1:12 – What we’re reading
10:37 – What we missed in 2017
29:39 – What we caught up on in 2017
41:01 – A Kind of Intimacy, Jenn Ashworth
Here is Patrick Stewart answering a question about domestic violence in a way that made me cry. Here is Elsa Sjunneson-Henry on watching the movie The Shape of Water as a deaf-blind person. Here is the wonderful Tiffany Haddish talking about doing a Groupon with Will and Jada Pinkett Smith.
Get at me on Twitter, email the podcast, and friend me (Gin Jenny) and Whiskey Jenny on Goodreads. Or if you wish, you can find us on iTunes (and if you enjoy the podcast, give us a good rating! We appreciate it very very much).
Credits
Producer: Captain Hammer
Photo credit: The Illustrious Annalee
Theme song by: Jessie Barbour
Transcript is coming soon and will be available under the jump.
TRANSCRIPT
THEME SONG: You don’t judge a book by its cover. Page one’s not a much better view. And shortly you’re gonna discover the middle won’t mollify you. So whether whiskey’s your go-to or you’re like my gin-drinking friend, no matter what you are imbibing, you’ll be better off in the end reading the end.
GIN JENNY: Welcome to the Reading the End Bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys. I’m Gin Jenny.
WHISKEY JENNY: And I’m Whiskey Jenny.
GIN JENNY: And we are here again today to talk to you about books and literary happenings. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about what we missed in 2017. We’re going to also get a little bit into the things we caught up on in 2017. And then we will launch into the third annual Hatening by talking about Jenn Ashworth’s book, A Kind of Intimacy, which I am confident Whiskey Jenny hated.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sure did! [LAUGHTER] Spoiler alert.
GIN JENNY: But before we get into all that, Whiskey Jenny, what are you reading?
WHISKEY JENNY: I am reading The Whites, by Richard Price. I think he actually published it originally under a pen name, but I can’t find that right now. But it’s Richard Price, the guy who wrote Lush Life. It is a New York crime police novel, and I received it in work book swap, where the theme was [OMINOUSLY] murder. The themes so far have been murder, the sea, heists, and we’re about to do animals and nature. So obviously I’m the one in charge of picking.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Well it sounds like you’re doing a bang up job. How frequently do these books swaps occur?
WHISKEY JENNY: They’ve been sort of erratic so far, but every—
GIN JENNY: So just whenever you feel like it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, every three months-ish. Every season-ish.
GIN JENNY: Cool. That sounds great.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’ve been enjoying them. I allow nominations of themes, but then I get ultimate say and just pick it like a dictator. But every time I’m like, if you guys don’t want to do that system, we can vote or something. But until anyone— until there is a rebellion, I’m going to keep doing this and just make it be like, heists, murder, heists again. [LAUGHTER] The ocean.
GIN JENNY: It sounds like the themes you’ve chosen have been great. Can I ask if you had a favorite one of the ones you’ve chosen so far?
WHISKEY JENNY: I think— well, we just did heists. And I think that one also had, I would say, the most attendance so far.
GIN JENNY: Oh, that’s nice.
WHISKEY JENNY: And because it was so— it’s pretty hard to find a heist book, and it was pretty broad. So we said it also includes cons, or prison breaks, or general criminal activity with a plan. It was just really interesting seeing everyone’s interpretation of that.
GIN JENNY: Cool. Well, it sounds great. I’m always super impressed by your work book swap. And I keep thinking that I would like to have a work book swap of my own, but so far, I have not been brave enough to suggest it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I really enjoy it. But we already have a separate work book club, so the ice was already broken.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, definitely. So are you enjoying The Whites?
WHISKEY JENNY: I am enjoying it, yeah. It’s very, you know, hard boiled, and people are dealing with stuff. I have no idea where it’s going to go. You get perspective from the bad guy, too, so you know who it is, and you know who’s doing what to the— I guess— protagonist. But it’s kind of cool to see it all come together. I am pretty anxious to see what is going to happen, because it’s not going to be good. It’s definitely not going to be good. But I’m enjoying it.
GIN JENNY: Do you think I would like it? Because I had it on my list, but—
WHISKEY JENNY: No. [GIGGLE]
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I kind of didn’t think so either.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, definitely not.
GIN JENNY: OK, cool. All right, good to know. I have it on my— well, because I started reading it a while ago. I read maybe two chapters and I was like, ugh. Ugh with this. All right, cool. Good to know.
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t know if this is a spoiler, but the dude who’s stalking, I guess the main dude, is also a cop. And there is a lot of police brutality.
GIN JENNY: Oh, yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: So he’s not great. And then the main dude, the main cop, Billy, also was involved in some shady stuff in the ‘70s. And in today’s current climate, it’s hard to read about.
GIN JENNY: Well, and based on the flashbacks in the television show Brooklyn 99, the ‘70s were a very different time.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: That’s the only indication that we’ve been given so far.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yes, I’m following the faintest of breadcrumb trails to this information.
WHISKEY JENNY: I believe that noted television show Psych also does a fun ‘70s flashback episode that I recommend checking out if you get that far.
GIN JENNY: OK. I’m sure that I will get that far.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, good. Are you enjoying it so far? How far into it are you?
GIN JENNY: Oh my gosh, yes. It’s so— there have been a couple of television shows, comfort television shows that I’ve been watching lately, and Psych is one of them. Because it’s just very— you know, it’s always kind of—
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s always happy.
GIN JENNY: It’s always what it is. You know what I mean?
WHISKEY JENNY: It is. It’s so great. I love it so much.
GIN JENNY: Which is really nice.
WHISKEY JENNY: I was worried that I had sold it too much, because in rewatching— in my memory I was like, no, they’re definitely co-leads, Gus and Sean. And the show does a good job of not making Sean the man-baby the main dude. And in rewatching, he’s definitely the main dude and Gus is the second main dude.
GIN JENNY: Sure.
WHISKEY JENNY: And I wish it was more of Gus’s story, because I just think he’s—
GIN JENNY: Oh, gosh.
WHISKEY JENNY: —the best.
GIN JENNY: Gus is the sweetest. You know, Whiskey Jenny, I wasn’t expecting the world when I was watching it, because I knew the type of show it was. And it’s exactly in line with that. It’s a very, very fun example of that type of thing.
WHISKEY JENNY: Great. Well, I’m so glad you’re liking it.
GIN JENNY: I am.
WHISKEY JENNY: We’re going to talk about it more in what we missed in 2017.
GIN JENNY: Oh, great. Oh, fantastic.
WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER] Hope you’re ready for this to be all Psych all the time! If you’re just tuning in, we have now made this podcast a Psych recap podcast. Get ready!
GIN JENNY: Oh, man, that’d be fun.
WHISKEY JENNY: What are you reading right now?
GIN JENNY: So I am reading The Epic Crush of Genie Lo, by F.C. Yee, which is a young adult novel. It’s so delightful. It’s about a girl who, this boy comes to her high school, and it turns out that he is a person from Chinese legend, and she, in fact, is the reincarnation of another Chinese legend. And the two of them have to fight demons together, because all the demons of Chinese legend are coming to her town, basically, to try and kill humans. So she has to train real fast.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, snap.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, and learn to beat all the monsters. And like many superheroes, she has trouble balancing her super life and her personal life. And it’s just really fun.
WHISKEY JENNY: Does she get to tell the people that she’s a superhero?
GIN JENNY: So far she hasn’t.
WHISKEY JENNY: [SIGH]
GIN JENNY: But she hasn’t said the “I have to keep it from them for their own good” thing.
WHISKEY JENNY: Good God. OK, good.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it’s just been more like she’s trying to keep one side of her life normal while she does this other stuff. And she thinks she can do the demon fighting on the side, but it’s becoming— I’m about 2/3 of the way through— it’s becoming increasingly apparent that she really can’t.
Also, I’m hoping that her best friend turns out to be also a reincarnated legend, so that the best friend can fight with them. Because her best friend seems super nice. Also— oh, Whiskey Jenny— also, she and her best friend have the same name!
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh!
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: That’s nice. What’s their name?
GIN JENNY: Their name is Eugenia, and one of them goes by Yunie and one of them goes by Genie.
WHISKEY JENNY: Aw!
GIN JENNY: I know! How cute is that?
WHISKEY JENNY: That’s really sweet.
GIN JENNY: I know. So I feel so represented now. So it’s fun. I think it’s the first in a series. It’s kind of a young-leaning YA book, like I would give it to an 11- or 12-year-old. And it’s very charming.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sounds sweet.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I just finished reading a book— see, this is the problem, Whiskey Jenny. I just finished reading a book about the Silk Road, which I picked up— it was just a very basic introduction to the Silk Road that I happened to pick up at the library, and now—
WHISKEY JENNY: Sorry, hold on.
GIN JENNY: Yeah?
WHISKEY JENNY: The original historical one, or the dark web one?
GIN JENNY: Yes, I always forget there are two. The original historical one, not the dark web one. But now— China is not on my list of countries to learn all about for a while yet. I still have to do all of Africa, as you’ll recall.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes.
GIN JENNY: And then after that I was going to do all of Latin America. So I mean, you know, because I’m going to know everything.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, eventually.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, eventually, right.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well why Latin American next? Sorry, did you say Latin America or South America?
GIN JENNY: I said Latin America. Basically the same reason as Africa. I was working on a project a while back for work that made me realize how little I knew about Latin American history. So no really great reason. It’s just what happened to be in my professional life.
But anyway, the Silk Road, turns out, really fascinating. And this book kept dropping very tantalizing hints. Like it would talk about this one king, and then it would say, “whose wife was famously called The Butcher Queen,” and then it’ll move on and I’ll be like— wait! [LAUGHTER] Go back!
WHISKEY JENNY: I mean, we all know why, though, so no need to go into that again.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I have a lot more questions. So I’m hoping that I can get another book about the Silk Road pretty soon and learn more stuff.
WHISKEY JENNY: Cool!
GIN JENNY: But also keep up with my Africa thing. Hopefully. I don’t know, I’m juggling a lot of—
WHISKEY JENNY: Have you read or picked any more Africa books next or anything?
GIN JENNY: No. I need to do that. Well the other thing was, the Silk Road book mentioned a fourth century travel guide to the Silk Road that apparently talked about all the mystical beasts that you would encounter in the different parts of traveling down the Silk Road area.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, how cool!
GIN JENNY: Isn’t that cool? And then I checked my library and there was a—
WHISKEY JENNY: Is it illustrated?
GIN JENNY: Yes, that was immediately my first question, of course. At first I couldn’t find an edition that had illustrations. Apparently it was not originally illustrated. But then I found an edition at my university library that does have plates. But what I really want is for someone to release a fully illustrated edition with color images and stuff.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.
GIN JENNY: So someone needs to get on that.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I agree. It sounds great.
GIN JENNY: Doesn’t that sound amazing? So that’s what I—
WHISKEY JENNY: Can I submit that as a proposal under a different name to you?
GIN JENNY: Absolutely you can. Yes.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Who did this?
GIN JENNY: Oh, it’s a total mystery.
WHISKEY JENNY: What a coincidence.
GIN JENNY: Just what I was interested in five moments ago. Well, do you want to talk about what we missed in 2017?
WHISKEY JENNY: I do. I’m excited to talk about it.
GIN JENNY: I am, too. I had to really narrow it down, because I gotta tell you, Whiskey Jenny, I did not consume a lot of the buzzy 2017 media.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, me neither. I missed a lot as well. And I was worried when gathering it that there wasn’t going to be anything that I still wanted to consume. Which was very prideful of me, to be like, I did it all, so. [LAUGHTER] But I watched the things that I was really excited to watch, mostly, I thought. But then in looking back I was like, oh no, there is still a ton that I need to catch up on. So.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, same.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Humbling and enlightening.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: So I missed so much stuff— because I think we’ve done this type of podcast before, and when we’ve done it before, I think I’ve included stuff that I missed by choice. But this time there was so much stuff that I missed that I decided to just narrow it down to stuff I actually do still want to consume.
WHISKEY JENNY: Same.
GIN JENNY: Well, what’s your first one?
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, so I divided it up into categories. Movies, books, or TVs.
GIN JENNY: Great. Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s start with TVs.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, I’ll talk about Psych first, because I said that I would. There was a Psych movie this year that came out, and I still haven’t seen it because I wanted to catch up on some old episodes before watching it. And then I’ve just been having so much fun watching the old episodes that I was like, maybe I should watch in order all eight seasons. Because I’ve just been sort of weirdly diving in and out and be like, I want to watch this episode now! So I was like, maybe I should watch all eight seasons and then watch the movie. But that is a lot of time before I could watch the movie. So that’s the current stalemate that I’m at. But no matter what I decide, I’m really excited to see that Psych movie. And I’m just so excited that it’s back on streaming, and people are— well, for a brief day, people were talking about it. [LAUGHTER] It was great.
GIN JENNY: We’re still talking about it, so I call it a win.
WHISKEY JENNY: We are. There we go. Exactly. So yeah, that was one thing that I missed and I’m super excited to catch up on. That’s very good.
GIN JENNY: Well, my first TV thing is the television show Glow. It’s a Netflix show. And I have every intention of rectifying this. It seems amazing. Have you seen it, Whiskey Jenny?
WHISKEY JENNY: I did. I did. I had a blast watching it, and I feel like I watched it pretty close to when people were talking about it, which is a win for me. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: Yeah, that almost never happens for me.
WHISKEY JENNY: It was really fun. Yeah, I really, really loved it.
GIN JENNY: Oh, great. Yeah, so I’ve heard nothing but great things about it. I think the reason I didn’t watch it when it came out is that I just wasn’t necessarily sure of a wrestling show was going to be my thing. But Friend of the Podcast Ashley—
WHISKEY JENNY: Really?
GIN JENNY: Yeah, well you know, wrestling makes me kind of anxious. I’m always afraid they’re going to really hurt each other. And I know that’s silly, because I watch football all the time. [LAUGHTER] But nevertheless, somehow this is where I’m at.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, well, there you go. I mean, the heart wants what the heart wants.
GIN JENNY: Right. But actually, Friend of the Podcast Ashley has been a great advocate for this show. And she said so much about it that I was like, OK, yeah, I should definitely catch up on it.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s all about female friendships, and it’s really delightful.
GIN JENNY: That’s what I heard. It kind of reminded me of the movie Whip It, which is a roller derby movie that I really liked. So that was just a good reminder that I don’t have to actually be fundamentally invested in a sport to enjoy a show about that sport.
WHISKEY JENNY: Have you ever seen roller derby?
GIN JENNY: No. Have you?
WHISKEY JENNY: No. I really want to, though.
GIN JENNY: I really want to as well.
WHISKEY JENNY: There was a roller derby episode on Psych and I was like, man, I should totally do that. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: One of my friends joined roller derby when she lived in Louisiana.
WHISKEY JENNY: She did it!?
GIN JENNY: She did it, but she was still in training, and then she got a fancy job in California and moved, so she never did a game. So I never got to go see her in an actual—
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh my god! Oh my god!
GIN JENNY: I know!
WHISKEY JENNY: That would’ve been so cool. I’ve always secretly wanted to do it, but I don’t think I could do it. I don’t think I’d be good enough.
GIN JENNY: I have never secretly wanted to do it. I would like to make up names for people who do it, though. That could be my contribution.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, well, make up my name. What would my name be?
GIN JENNY: Oh gosh, I’m going I have to really, really, really think about it, Whiskey Jenny. I can’t just off the top of my head. I mean, I would—
WHISKEY JENNY: Sure, sorry. I didn’t mean to put the pressure on you.
GIN JENNY: No, that’s all right. I just want to give you the best possible answer.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, well, thank you.
GIN JENNY: Yes. I want to choose something really suitable and apt.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, thanks. Well, next time we’re together maybe we can go see some roller derby. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: Oh yeah! Oh, that would be fun. Yes, we should definitely do that.
WHISKEY JENNY: Podcast field trip!
GIN JENNY: Yay! And then we can report back on it. All right, great. Fantastic. Do you have anything else in the television category?
WHISKEY JENNY: I do. I have several other things.
GIN JENNY: Oh, great. Good. Go.
WHISKEY JENNY: Maybe I— I might have too much.
GIN JENNY: No, no, no. It’s impossible. Please continue.
WHISKEY JENNY: The Good Place.
GIN JENNY: The Good Place!
WHISKEY JENNY: The Good Place. I have watched all of season one now of The Good Place.
GIN JENNY: Oh, wonderful.
WHISKEY JENNY: But I have a weird relationship with The Good Place, where I watched all except for the season finale of season one for a while. And then I finally watched season one, and it did change everything, and I managed to get through it. But I was very anxious about it beforehand. But our lovely theme song composer talked me into it and let me hold her dog during.
GIN JENNY: Good, good. So important.
WHISKEY JENNY: I was all excited then to watch season two, but I missed the window on Hulu where the first episode is up there. And then I was like, well now I have to wait forever until it goes up on Netflix. So that’s where I am now on The Good Place. And there’s all these articles about how great season two was, and how awesome everyone was on that show, and it looks really fun, and everyone’s hanging out and having fun without me.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Aw! See, this is one— we were just talking about how normally I am not up with the zeitgeist at all. However, The Good Place is a show that I watched, not quite from its debut, but close. And it really got me through the 2016 election season.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s— I mean, it’s a beautiful, beautiful show.
GIN JENNY: It is. It’s just, its emphasis on kindness, and being good to other people, and making good choices, is just really lovely. And oh, so good. I think you will really enjoy season two. It’s a lot of fun.
WHISKEY JENNY: Great. I can’t wait. And it’s such a fun cast, I’m just really excited to spend time with those people again, all the characters. I’m like, oh, I get to see Chidi again, and I get to see Tahani again.
GIN JENNY: I love them all so much. GQ has been doing a series of profiles of all the different cast members, and it’s just been the most charming thing.
WHISKEY JENNY: I can’t wait. Do you have any more TV shows?
GIN JENNY: My other TV show that I had was— so my emotions about this are a little more complicated. But Star Trek: Discovery.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, yeah.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I’ve heard of very mixed responses to this show. Some people have been like, this is the greatest Star Trek ever, and other people have been like, the portrayal of Klingons is horribly racist. So—
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And some people are like, this isn’t even really Star Trek. So I don’t know how to feel. Plus it was on CBS All Access, which I don’t subscribe to. But I watched one episode with friends from the middle of the season, and I was kind of into it. I liked all the actors. I found the situation generally compelling. There weren’t that many Klingons.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sorry, can I ask a really dumb question? Worf is a Klingon?
GIN JENNY: Worf is a Klingon.
WHISKEY JENNY: Is The Next Generation the one with Worf?
GIN JENNY: The Next Generation— I think Worf is in two. I think he’s in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. But he is in The Next Generation.
WHISKEY JENNY: Data is in The Next Generation.
GIN JENNY: Data is in The Next Generation. Yeah, Data’s my favorite.
WHISKEY JENNY: And Patrick Stewart.
GIN JENNY: And Patrick Stewart, who is so great.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK. OK, great. I know which one that is, and I think that’s the one that my parents watched when I was quite young.
GIN JENNY: Aww.
WHISKEY JENNY: And so my memories it are just like— I just remember Worf being great. I was like, man, Team Worf.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Well, you know, I think this has really shaped you, Whiskey Jenny.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: I think so, too! Because he’s kind of scary looking, but he has a heart of gold.
GIN JENNY: Yes, he does. That’s very true.
WHISKEY JENNY: Very formative.
GIN JENNY: Hey, you know what?
WHISKEY JENNY: What?
GIN JENNY: Speaking of Patrick Stewart.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Should I put that on my list of things that I missed in 2017?
GIN JENNY: Oh my god, yeah, that should be what you catch up on in 2018. Listeners, in case you’re not aware, there’s a video of Patrick Stewart that’s very heartwarming. And I’ve been trying to get Whiskey Jenny to watch it since like 2012.
WHISKEY JENNY: In my defense, she always prefaces it as like, you’re going to cry sad tears but then it’s going to be OK.
GIN JENNY: I did not say sad tears! They’re happy tears. I said you were going to cry. I didn’t say sad tears. You just made that up.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, I thought they were going to be sad tears.
GIN JENNY: No.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, I always assumed that it was because it was sad tears.
GIN JENNY: I mean, he says some sad stuff, but he’s like— but he’s, you know, it’s a hopeful message.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well.
GIN JENNY: Hmm. I’ll link to it in the show notes so that listeners and Whiskey Jenny can watch it.
WHISKEY JENNY: This actually changes things. I thought it was going to be sad tears.
GIN JENNY: No, I never said that.
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t know why I got that impression. I’m so sorry.
GIN JENNY: That’s OK.
WHISKEY JENNY: I feel like, I can’t believe that new information is coming out about this after all this time. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: Six years down the line.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, well, this changes things.
GIN JENNY: OK, great. It’s one of my favorite videos on the internet. And when I’m feeling sad, sometimes I watch it and I’m like, hooray. There’s hope for humanity. All right, do you want to do movies?
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, let’s do movies.
GIN JENNY: All right. Well, you can start. What’s your first movie?
WHISKEY JENNY: Star Wars!
GIN JENNY: Star Wars!
WHISKEY JENNY: Star Wars! The new Star Wars, The Last Jedi, I did not see until two days ago, Friday night. So I missed it in 2017 and then I caught up real quick on it in 2018— I think probably close towards the end of its run in theaters, so I’m glad that I finally caught it, because I was worried I wasn’t going to. Obviously I loved it. It was great. I loved it so much.
GIN JENNY: Yay!
WHISKEY JENNY: Yay! But I did miss it in 2017.
GIN JENNY: Well I’m glad you enjoyed it. What was your favorite part?
WHISKEY JENNY: Gosh. Well, I mean, there’s— I can’t pick. There’s so many great moments.
GIN JENNY: Yay.
WHISKEY JENNY: The first moment that I did call out, I know that it was pandering to me, but the moment where Chewie does his very imposing battle roar, and then the porg beside him does a tiny little battle squeal, I lost all reason. [LAUGHTER] It was really sweet and lovely. And I love Chewie, and I want Chewie to have a lot more screen time and storylines than he does.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I feel like Chewie’s getting kind of a bum rap.
WHISKEY JENNY: Agreed. So I was glad that he got that moment, at least, to be a hero at that time. But my god, so many great moments. Let’s see. I can’t list them all. This would be a whole separate podcast. I can’t list them all.
GIN JENNY: All right, fair enough.
WHISKEY JENNY: I couldn’t possibly. But there were a lot of them.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I’ve been really excited to talk to you about it. And I’m just really glad you finally saw it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Me, too!
GIN JENNY: OK, so a movie that I missed in 2017 was Girls’ Trip, which I heard a ton of good stuff about.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh yeah! You know what, me too. I’m so glad you mentioned that.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I never go see movies is the problem, so I missed it. But my sister now owns it on DVD, so I can borrow it from her.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, great.
GIN JENNY: It’s a movie about four black friends who go on a trip to the Essence Festival in New Orleans to reconnect with each other, their friendship. It’s supposed to be really funny. I love a lady friendship movie. And Queen Latifah is in it. I love her. I’ve heard great things about Tiffany Haddish.
WHISKEY JENNY: Plus it gave us that story about Tiffany Haddish bringing Will Smith and Jada Pinkett-Smith on a Groupon trip.
GIN JENNY: Aw!
WHISKEY JENNY: Did you not hear that story?
GIN JENNY: No, I didn’t hear that story.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh my god, that’s a great clip. She was telling it on some late night show. So I’ll send you the clip.
GIN JENNY: Oh fantastic. We’ll link it in the show notes.
WHISKEY JENNY: It is— it’s so cute.
GIN JENNY: Aw.
WHISKEY JENNY: Because they didn’t think it was going to be a group. They didn’t know what Groupon was, because they’re the Smiths. [LAUGHTER] It’s really sweet.
GIN JENNY: Well, we’ll link it in the show notes. So that was my only movie. I’m not the best at movies.
WHISKEY JENNY: I have three more movies.
GIN JENNY: Oh, great. Oh, good, well, I’ll probably want to see them, too, so this will just refresh my memory. Go.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK. So these two got talked a lot about when they came out. But The Big Sick I never saw and really wanted to. And then I keep hearing great things about The Shape of Water, and particular recommendations that I personally will enjoy it. So I do really want to see that, of the big Oscar nominees. And then Happy Death Day came out this year, and I also wanted to see that.
GIN JENNY: I want to see that, too. Wait, why can you watch that horror movie, but not Get Out horror movie?
WHISKEY JENNY: Because I don’t think it’s a horror movie. I think it’s a thriller.
GIN JENNY: That’s fair.
WHISKEY JENNY: She just keeps dying. It’s like a Groundhog Day, but she keeps getting murdered.
GIN JENNY: I’m a little— so Friend of the Podcast Ashley told us both that this movie was really good. And I’m nervous to watch it because I have kind of persistent anxiety about being murdered. And I have these intrusive thoughts that I’m being murdered, and I’m imagining ways that I could escape, and I always fail and they always kill me. And I’m worried this movie is going to be too close to that.
WHISKEY JENNY: I agree 1,000%. I don’t think you should watch this movie in that case.
GIN JENNY: But it sounds good!
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: No, it doesn’t! It doesn’t sound good!
GIN JENNY: Well, the movie sounds good. Not my scary thoughts sound good. The movie sounds good.
WHISKEY JENNY: If I had those kinds of intrusive thoughts, like in that genre, I would not want to see this movie.
GIN JENNY: I know what. When you watch it, tell me how scary it is on a scale of 1 to 10, and then I’ll proceed from there. And I’ll also probably look up the whole plot online, and that will help, too.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Yay.
GIN JENNY: I’m kind of mad at The Shape of Water.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, why?
GIN JENNY: A couple reasons. I was mad at them that they did not cast a disabled actress in the main role. Because the main character doesn’t speak and uses ASL. But Sally Hawkins’s ASL is quite bad, very obviously from the trailer.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, is it?
GIN JENNY: It is. I mean that’s fine, whatever. That’s not her native language.
WHISKEY JENNY: That’s annoying, though. If you’re playing that role it has to be believable.
GIN JENNY: Right. So that, and then also in the trailer, she says something like that the fish guy doesn’t know that she’s incomplete, or something like that. It uses some language like that for her disability.
WHISKEY JENNY: Eugh!
GIN JENNY: Yeah, that I wasn’t crazy about.
WHISKEY JENNY: Eugh!
GIN JENNY: Yeah, so I was kind of mad at it. And then I read a review, I think on Tor.com, where a deaf woman was talking about watching this movie and just feeling very shut out by it, which kind of confirmed what I had thought when I watched the trailer. So I was kind of like, eeeehhh. But I don’t know. I’ve heard it’s really good in other ways. I don’t know.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, I didn’t hear any of that. Well, that’s very disappointing.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I don’t know, man. I never know with this stuff.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, it’s hard to tell. But you know.
GIN JENNY: What’s your next category? I just have books. I didn’t think of doing podcasts.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, me neither. No, I just have books, as well.
GIN JENNY: All right, cool.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sorry, podcasts. [LAUGHTER] Maybe as podcasters we should have thought of that, but oh well!
GIN JENNY: All right, what’s a book that you missed?
WHISKEY JENNY: So I did not read Lincoln in the Bardo.
GIN JENNY: Oh, me neither. That was almost on my list, and then I was like, but am I going to read that? And I couldn’t decide.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.
GIN JENNY: I’ve heard it’s really good.
WHISKEY JENNY: Same. And I’m also on the fence. But people keep talking about it and talking about it. Just the description of does not— I don’t know, it [MUMBLING] doesn’t really sound that interesting to me.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: But people talked about it so much when it came out that I’m like, OK, well, maybe that tips it over the edge.
GIN JENNY: I’ve also heard listening to it in audio is a really positive experience. Because they apparently got a bunch— because it’s a number of different narrators, and they got a bunch of really great voice actors to do it apparently.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, cool.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And I read a short story by George Saunders that I quite enjoyed.
WHISKEY JENNY: Great. Well, what’s a book that you missed?
GIN JENNY: So I did not read The Power by Naomi Alderman, which was, I feel like, very buzzy last year. And it’s the book about a world where I think teenage girls suddenly discover that their bodies can produce electric shocks. And I’ve been nervous to read it, in part because 2017 was such a rough year and the idea of reading another book about the abuse of power was a lot to contemplate. But I’ve heard so much good stuff about it. Former guest star Renay has talked about it in very glowing terms. So I’m pretty much bowing to the will of heaven at this point. I’ve just heard so many amazing things about it. It’s a preponderance of evidence and I feel like I have to give in.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, I hope it’s good.
GIN JENNY: I hope it is, too. I will keep you posted.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes, please. I have still not read Sing Unburied, Sing.
GIN JENNY: Oh, me neither.
WHISKEY JENNY: Which I actually haven’t read any Jesmyn Ward, but two of my book clubs have picked it.
GIN JENNY: Oh, great.
WHISKEY JENNY: So I will be reading it next. Shortly. Very forthcoming. I really wanted to read it otherwise. It looked— you know, she is a writer that allegedly, justifiably so, everyone talks about in glowing terms. And I just haven’t read any of her books, because they often sound really hard to read.
GIN JENNY: Yes. So I— Yeah. I didn’t read Men We Reaped, because it sounded really— it’s about men in her life who have died, which sounds just unbelievably tragic. And I think one of them is her brother, so that just sounds super rough.
WHISKEY JENNY: Nope.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And then she wrote a novel that was set during— I want to say during Katrina, but it was definitely set during a hurricane flood situation. And I don’t really do that, either. So this is the first one of her books that I’ve been like, OK, I think I can read this one.
WHISKEY JENNY: This is the one— I think that the narrator struggles with drug addiction. And that’s usually one of my things— or it’s always one of my things that I’m like, I don’t want to read about that. But we’re reading it for book club, and I was like, well, I’ve always wanted to read Jesmyn Ward. So this will be the one.
GIN JENNY: Cool. Well, I’ll read it, too. Because you and Friend of the Podcast Ashley have both read it, and if I read it we can all talk about it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, there we go.
GIN JENNY: Cool. My next one is After The Flare, by Deji Bryce Olukotun. I’m not sure how to pronounce his name and I couldn’t find it online. This is an SF book about Earth is ravaged by solar flares that basically knock out most of the world’s electricity and communications network.
WHISKEY JENNY: Ooh, like a big pinch.
GIN JENNY: Exactly! Exactly, an enormous pinch. So all the satellites that have been launched into space are fixing to come crashing down onto earth. So Nigeria is the only country left with a working space program, so they’re scrambling to get together a rescue mission. And Boko Haram is preparing to attack, so they’re having to deal with that at the same time. Yeah, and they have to save earth! So it sounds very exciting. And I meant to read it last year, and somehow my library never had it when I was there. But I still really want to.
WHISKEY JENNY: That sounds great. So my next book is Pachinko, I think that’s how you say it, by Min Jin Li, which is a multigenerational family saga, which you know that I love. I guess I didn’t hear a lot of chatter about this in the media, but I got a lot of word of mouth recommendations about this book. It sounds right up my alley, an historical family saga. That’s basically all I know about it. And I am really looking forward to it. Also it has a beautiful cover.
GIN JENNY: It does have— yeah, I’ve seen the cover. I’m not so much into multigenerational family sagas, but the cover is very beautiful, indeed.
WHISKEY JENNY: Cool. I don’t know, did it get a lot of chatter that I just missed? Did it get a lot of buzz?
GIN JENNY: I think I saw some pre-publication talk about it, which is how I was aware of it. But no, I don’t think I’ve seen a ton about it since it’s been out.
WHISKEY JENNY: Weird.
GIN JENNY: Well, I think that we can catch up on all those things, for sure.
WHISKEY JENNY: I think we can, too. I’ve already caught up on Star Wars.
GIN JENNY: That’s right, you have! You’re already halfway there.
WHISKEY JENNY: It was great. It was so great.
GIN JENNY: I’m not 100% sure I can catch up on Star Trek: Discovery. It’s going to depends on if they release it on DVD and my library gets it. We’ll see. Well, do you want to talk about what we caught up on in 2017, a very heartening segment?
WHISKEY JENNY: I sure do. I started Jane the Virgin this year.
GIN JENNY: Awww!
WHISKEY JENNY: First, when Gin Jenny was visiting me and watched it.
GIN JENNY: And very gratifyingly, I was like, oh Whiskey Jenny, just wait until Bridget Regan shows up. She’s so beautiful. And she comes on screen and Whiskey jenny was like, whoa!
WHISKEY JENNY: Wait, which one is Bridget Regan?
GIN JENNY: She’s the redhead. She’s Raphael’s sister— yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh my god, the— yeah. Holy crap. Yeah, she’s gorgeous.
GIN JENNY: She’s so beautiful.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s so sweet and wonderful, and all the things that everyone always said about it. I will say, I can’t watch a whole lot of it all together. It’s not a show for bingeing.
GIN JENNY: Like it’s too stylized, or it’s too emotional?
WHISKEY JENNY: I guess too emotional because of the way it’s stylized. It’s stylized like a telenovela, so everything is—
GIN JENNY: Everything’s heightened!
WHISKEY JENNY: Everything’s heightened. Drink for Vampire Diaries. Everything is heightened, though. It’s like every single conversation or missed opportunity gets the narration, and the emotional arc, and the dramatic music, and the soap opera treatment. And it’s just a lot for me emotionally. So I can only watch a couple at a time. It’s not a binging show. But I super enjoy it. It’s really sweet and lovely. I love yelling at her choices and being like, why are you messing around with this dude? He’s the worst. I obviously don’t really like her cop boyfriend. I don’t like him at all.
GIN JENNY: Oh, good. I was about to ask, and then I was like, you don’t need to ask, Gin Jenny, you know the answer.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s the cop boyfriend who lies to her all the time!
GIN JENNY: He lies to her all the time. I think it’s so shady. And he’s also really controlling sometimes in a way I don’t like.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah! He lies to her so much. Yeah, no I don’t like him.
GIN JENNY: Cool. Well that is a great, great choice. I am so glad you like that show. I love that show.
WHISKEY JENNY: Thanks for introducing me.
GIN JENNY: My first TV show is— so Whiskey Jenny, I have probably complained about this to you. There’s this ongoing scandal wherein the streaming channels constantly add white 1990s television content to their platforms, and even do revivals like Fuller House, but they never do the same with black 1990s content. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is not on streaming, which is crazy to me.
WHISKEY JENNY: That is crazy.
GIN JENNY: But Hulu, the streaming service with the best content, has finally made one step in the right direction by adding Living Single, which is kind of similar to Friends in some ways. Queen Latifah is in it. It’s so delightful. It is another of the comfort shows that I’ve been watching. I had never seen it before. I didn’t see it and it was first on. And I’m just finding it so pleasant. It’s a very classic sitcom. It’s about four women friends living in Brooklyn, and it’s just great. I mean, it’s great. I’m just enjoying it so much. Thanks, Hulu.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, it sounds lovely.
GIN JENNY: It really is. It’s been really fun. All right, what else do you have for TV?
WHISKEY JENNY: My other TV show is Broad City.
GIN JENNY: Oh yeah, you really like that show.
WHISKEY JENNY: I do enjoy it. I also can’t watch a whole bunch at a time because I get a little tired of it. But a couple at a time, it is really delightful. It is also all about female friendship.
GIN JENNY: Sure is.
WHISKEY JENNY: I was really hesitant to start it because I often hate the stories that are like, young white females living in New York.
GIN JENNY: Me too.
WHISKEY JENNY: Because that’s also me, and I get really anxious about it. And I’m like, well that’s not me, but also that’s me, and what does that say about my life? It’s just a whole spiral, so I just avoid them.
GIN JENNY: There’s also a lot of times I find so little to recognize. I’m like, how are these people living these lives?
WHISKEY JENNY: I know! Also that. Or it’s so far away that I’m like, what? This is not— what are you talking about? No one is like that. But I’m sure some people are like that.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, they must be.
WHISKEY JENNY: I guess. But yeah, I don’t know. If it’s too close, I’m like, oh, no, it’s too close. I can’t do it, it’s too close. But somehow this one is striking the right balance. And mostly it’s about how much they are into each other as friends and have each other’s backs as friends. And it’s also really funny. It’s got a really fun cast, and great jokes and great writing. And I’m super enjoying it.
GIN JENNY: Excellent. Well, so my next TV show that I caught up on last year— Whiskey Jenny is probably tired of hearing me talk about, but— Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. I loved it so much. I was nervous to watch it because the title is what it is, and I thought it was going to be— I thought it was going to be kind of “bitches be crazy.” But it super is not that at all. It’s deconstructing all these tropes about mental illness and what’s counted as cute behavior in women. And gosh, it’s so good. It’s so good, it’s so smart. I’ve been badgering everyone I know except for Whiskey Jenny into watching it. Because I truly don’t think you’d like the show. There’s so much lying.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, no, I don’t think I would.
GIN JENNY: I just think you would find it unbearably stressful. However for me and many other people— I didn’t mean to make that sound like— [LAUGHTER]
WHISKEY JENNY: No, it didn’t! No, no, it’s just not for me. But it’s for you and many other people. People love it. People love it!
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So I’ve badgered a bunch of my friends into watching it, and a bunch of them have really liked it. And the third season has been so good. The plot has been great. There’s been a ton of really smart stuff about the main character dealing with her mental illness in a way that she really hasn’t in the past. And also there’s just been some really hall of fame songs. There was this one that was kind of a Cabaret like song that was making fun of Fifty Shades of Gray a little bit. There was another that was a doo-wop inspired song called “Maybe She’s Not Such a Heinous Bitch After All” that I just [LAUGHTER] love so much!
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, great.
GIN JENNY: So it’s great. If the first two seasons are on Netflix, and I really, really recommend watching it. The first half of the first season there’s a lot of secondhand embarrassment, but the show moves away from that as it goes on. Thank god. And it’s really good. It’s really funny. And then there’s a lot of truths contained in it, as well.
WHISKEY JENNY: I heard they’re doing a live show. Are you excited about that? Are they coming near you?
GIN JENNY: Yes! No, they’re not coming anywhere near me. But I think it’s amazing that they’re doing a live show.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sorry.
GIN JENNY: That’s OK. And I’m hoping some of my New York friends get a chance to go see it, because I think it will be great. You want to move on to books?
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I’m ready.
GIN JENNY: I just have one, so you want to begin?
WHISKEY JENNY: I have— oh, god, I have a bunch.
GIN JENNY: Oh great. No, that’s fantastic.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I’ll begin. So I’ll start with my YA category first.
GIN JENNY: OK, awesome.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’ve talked about this already, but I read The Hunger Games for the first time—
GIN JENNY: You sure did!
WHISKEY JENNY: —at the beginning of 2017 and was like, man, that was so good and fun! So I know I’m really late to the train, but I caught up on The Hunger Games finally and super enjoyed it. I had a blast.
GIN JENNY: Great!
WHISKEY JENNY: But I talked about that already. The other thing that I read for the first time was a book by Melina Marchetta. We read for podcast—
GIN JENNY: Tell the Truth, Shame the Devil.
WHISKEY JENNY: And that was my first by her ever. And I’ve just always heard such great things about her as a writer. And I also super loved that one.
GIN JENNY: Yay.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. What’s a book that you—?
GIN JENNY: So I just had one because I feel like this has been a long time coming. I finally finished reading The Unwritten, by Mike Carey, which is a metafictiony comic series that ran from 2009 to 2015. And I was following it when it first came out. It’s one of the only comics I ever bought in issues. And then I kind of lost track of it, because comics can go on for a really long time. It can be hard to keep up.
But it’s a cool story. It’s about a guy who, as a kid, was the inspiration for this children’s book series that his father wrote that experienced Harry Potter like success. And then his father disappeared.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hm.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And he, the guy, has been semi-famous ever since. And as an adult, he suddenly starts encountering what appear to be characters from those books.
WHISKEY JENNY: Ooh.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And it gets pretty wild. They go all around the world. There’s comics that occur in different periods of history. So it’s just neat. And in 2017 I finally remembered to read the rest of it. And there were some rocky moments— there was a crossover with Fables, which is a comic that I used to like and have kind of gone off of. And the crossover wasn’t great. But I loved how it ended, which is so important with a comic series. Yeah, and I was just really glad that I finally remembered to catch up on it. All right, what else you got?
WHISKEY JENNY: I have three more. So for romances, this was my first year reading anything by Julie James.
GIN JENNY: Aw, yeah!
WHISKEY JENNY: And yeah, she writes really fun— my favorite romance genre is actiony romance. And she writes I really fun series with FBI agents—
GIN JENNY: It is fun.
WHISKEY JENNY: —slash lawyer. Anyway, I think I read two or three of those this year, which is my first time reading her. And I had such a great time. They covered all of my wants and needs for that kind of book, which is really fun supporting characters also.
There were these two cops that were protecting our heroine from the bad dude. And they got super invested in her life, and were giving her advice, and would talk about, like, well you know, she’s got to wear that dress for that date. And we’ve got to pick her up from the gym because she’s going to want to work out tonight, because you know her routine. And it was just so sweet. I loved how into her life they got.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: They were not either of the like love interests, and they knew so much more about her than the love interest. And he was always really baffled. I loved them so much. I would like a book of them, please.
GIN JENNY: Oh yeah, that would be amazing.
WHISKEY JENNY: And then, I guess on the more literary side, I read We Have Always Lived in the Castle for the first time this year.
GIN JENNY: [EXPECTANTLY] And?
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, I liked it! We talked about it.
GIN JENNY: OK, cool. I couldn’t remember if you’d liked it or not. I suddenly doubted myself, because it has an unreliable narrator, which is not your favorite.
WHISKEY JENNY: I mean, she sort of is.
GIN JENNY: Right, she sort of is.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, I still liked it. Which I guess is possibly surprising, given that she— like, they murdered a bunch of people. [LAUGHTER] But I was like, I just want them to be happy and live their lives and eat strawberries in the back lawn as long as they want. That’s what I want for them. And that’s what they got at the end, and I was like, great! Everyone’s happy. Hooray.
GIN JENNY: I’m fascinated that that’s how you took the end of the book. But cool. Great.
WHISKEY JENNY: I know. It’s weird, I agree. But I was like, hooray.
GIN JENNY: Well, good. Oh, I’m so pleased.
WHISKEY JENNY: Very pleased for them. They can now eat strawberries as long as they want.
GIN JENNY: Wonderful.
WHISKEY JENNY: And then I read Underground Railroad last year.
GIN JENNY: By Colson Whitehead?
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes, by Colson Whitehead, which was getting so much attention in 2016, rightfully so. Obviously it was great. Loved it. Super well done. And obviously very difficult to read, because it’s taking on slavery, but in a fascinating construct of the Underground Railroad being an actual railroad.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I read it— I think I read it either last year or when it came out. But I really liked all the different ways that he portrayed how racism functions in the different places that they stop.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes.
GIN JENNY: It was just a lot of different looks of what racism can be, and I just thought it was really, really well done.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Agreed.
GIN JENNY: Way to go, Colson Whitehead. I guess he doesn’t need our approval, because he has a Pulitzer or whatever.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, I think he’s doing all right. I think he’s good.
GIN JENNY: All right. Whiskey Jenny, shall we turn to the Hatening?
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, here we go. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: So for the third annual Hatening, I had Whiskey Jenny and myself read A Kind of Intimacy, by Jenn Ashworth, which is about a woman named Annie who’s an unreliable narrator. She moves into a new neighborhood. She used to have husband and daughter, and we don’t know what happened with that. We just know she has moved into this new neighborhood and is making a fresh start. And she becomes obsessed with her next door neighbor, Neil, and imagines all these interactions with him that she thinks are very meaningful. And turns out she is mad as a bag of cats. [LAUGHTER]
Whiskey Jenny, I have to tell you. I knew that this book was an unreliable narrator and was kind of a suburby. But when I was reading it, it contains more things that I anticipated that, as I was reading I was like, man, this is going to turn Whiskey Jenny into a sad and anxious turtle. And I didn’t mean to do that to you.
WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER] It sure did.
GIN JENNY: I’m so sorry! I didn’t know. It was worse than I thought.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. No, I understand. No, I understand. How could you know? It was— uh, no, I definitely hated it. So congratulations.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I’m so sorry. [LAUGHTER] So the thing is, with the Hatening, I want something that’s going to make you mad. I don’t want something that’s going to make you sad.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, and I think that’s the difference, too. With Easter Parade, I was just filled with rage. And this one, my stomach, I just felt like I wanted to puke the whole time.
GIN JENNY: God, I’m so sorry.
WHISKEY JENNY: A turtle— sad, uncomfortable turtle is an excellent description of my experience reading this.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I could just picture your face and your whole posture as you were reading this. Listeners, I did not intend to do this to Whiskey Jenny. I did not realize how specifically—
WHISKEY JENNY: No, of course you didn’t. Of course you didn’t! You would never do that on purpose.
GIN JENNY: —troubling it would be for her specific reading.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, no, it was a very unpleasant reading experience. I guess we could talk about the unreliable narratorness of it? I just don’t— I know that I’m coming from a place of already hating it. [LAUGHTER] But I guess in this one you know from the beginning that she’s an unreliable narrator, and you can see where she’s lying to you. It’s not like a surprise halfway through that you’re like, oh no, this changes everything! All along, she’ll have a— like, her neighbor will say hello to her, and she’ll say hello back, and then she’ll be like, obviously we’re in love. And you’re like, wait, what? The whole time.
So the whole time, it was just like, I don’t know if I was supposed to be feeling that or if I was just having a hard time getting into it. But I found that structure very confusing, I guess?
GIN JENNY: Interesting. OK.
WHISKEY JENNY: Because that’s a specific subgenre of unreliable narrator where you immediately always know where she’s lying.
GIN JENNY: That’s true.
WHISKEY JENNY: I guess you don’t know where she’s lying in her background. But— sorry, go on.
GIN JENNY: Even when you know she’s lying, you don’t always know what the truth is. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
WHISKEY JENNY: Right, OK.
GIN JENNY: So to me this was an extremely satisfying unreliable narrator, because you’re depending a lot on external—
WHISKEY JENNY: Really?
GIN JENNY: Yeah. Because you’re depending a lot on external cues, which Annie generally reports back quite faithfully.
WHISKEY JENNY: Huh.
GIN JENNY: So you can pretty much always get within a little while a sense of actually what happened and what’s going on, based on the way people are responding to her, which I found really effective. Especially the way she tells part truths about what happened with her family.
WHISKEY JENNY: Huh.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. To me, that was an extremely classic example of an unreliable narrator. I liked that a lot about it.
WHISKEY JENNY: I guess— I mean, obviously this is just not the genre for me. But I was like, if I can tell the whole time what’s happening and that you’re just delusional, what’s the point?
GIN JENNY: Really?
GIN JENNY: Not what’s the point. I did not like that part of it.
GIN JENNY: Huh. Because I don’t want to not know at all what’s happening. I’d like to know what’s happening, roughly.
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t either. Well, I don’t either. That’s why I don’t want to read it. [LAUGHTER] But I just thought it was strange that you were trying to lie to me but failing? I don’t know. I guess. I don’t know. It’s just not the book for me.
GIN JENNY: Was there anything that you did like about it?
[LONG PAUSE]WHISKEY JENNY: Nooo. [LAUGHTER] No, there wasn’t.
GIN JENNY: Another immensely successful—
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t think you’re surprised.
GIN JENNY: No, I’m not.
WHISKEY JENNY: I think I was hoping that I was going to find it funny, because I think it got a lot of praise for being really funny.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I didn’t really find it funny.
WHISKEY JENNY: I did not find it funny at all.
GIN JENNY: No.
WHISKEY JENNY: So no. I did not— there was not anything I liked about it. Sorry.
GIN JENNY: It’s kind of hard— no!
WHISKEY JENNY: I mean, great job though. Great job. Congratulations.
GIN JENNY: [LAUGHTER] Thank you. It’s kind of hard to talk about this book without getting into spoilers, so I think we’re going to have to spoiler warning from here out. But I will say, with regard to the unreliable narrator thing, initially I thought her husband and kid were alive and they got divorced. And then that proved not to be right and then I formed a new hypothesis, and that proved not to be right. But I did not anticipate at all that she had straight up killed both of them.
WHISKEY JENNY: I did not either. I thought at first— well actually, I thought that— because there’s one scene where she’s bloody at a bus station, I thought her husband was abusive. And we know that she married him quite young. I thought he was abusive.
GIN JENNY: Same.
WHISKEY JENNY: That he had killed the child and then she had killed him, that she was trying to make a new life. Also that’s not what happened either. She definitely murdered them both.
GIN JENNY: She murdered them both. And I didn’t realize that was the level of craziness that I should anticipate for this book. Like, I didn’t think it was going to get that bonkers as a plot. So that was a surprise. I would say I liked things about this book a lot, but I was very, very bothered by the way it depicts Annie’s weight. It’s discussed a lot. And I don’t know, maybe I’m being oversensitive, but to me it kind of suggests that it’s laughable for someone fat to expect to find a good relationship. And you see a lot of times when people are thinking of Annie based on her appearance as being pathetic and pitiable and deluded. And because she ultimately is the villain of everything, and they are all not the villain, I don’t know. It feels like it doesn’t push back on that narrative at all.
WHISKEY JENNY: Right. I guess this is the one thing that I sort of respected about the book, is it does not make— Annie’s for sure the villain of the book. But it does not make the people that she is horrifyingly stalking at the end there perfect.
GIN JENNY: Oh no, absolutely not at all.
WHISKEY JENNY: Lucy in particular says some really cruel stuff for her. So I took the comments of other characters about her weight as in that same category as other horrible stuff that people are saying about her. Because people are really cruel.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, oh no, definitely.
WHISKEY JENNY: Society in particular is really awful to women especially, and women of a certain size in particular, as well. And so I put that in that category of, yeah, they’re being awful to her, but also you can’t murder people.
GIN JENNY: Well I guess to me it felt— again, I could be being oversensitive. But it felt like the book was tying her weight to her moral transgressions in a way that I was uncomfortable with.
WHISKEY JENNY: Really? OK.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, because I feel like her weight and her sexual choices and her sociopathic violence are all heavily linked in the flashback parts.
WHISKEY JENNY: Fair. Yeah.
GIN JENNY: And I think connecting the first two things with the last thing is not great. Being fat is not immoral. Sleeping with a bunch of people is not immoral. And the book doesn’t— I don’t know, the book doesn’t exactly say that it is, but it felt that way to me. Like, she’s overweight, and she’s horny, and everyone finds her so pathetic, which was already uncomfortable. And then she ends up sleeping with a bunch of people by answering advertisements in these fat fetish magazines. And that leads to her killing her husband and child. I don’t know, it was just—
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t think it led to her killing that child for sure.
GIN JENNY: OK well, it led to her having the child she didn’t want. Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, sure.
GIN JENNY: I didn’t feel great about it. I wouldn’t recommend this book to someone even though there were things that I liked about it, because I just wasn’t thrilled with the fictional morality it was setting forth.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. No, that’s fair. And I think it also portrays her eating choices in a way that we’re supposed to judge her for. And I didn’t want to do that. I didn’t want to get on that train that the book was inviting me to. So that was also uncomfortable, I thought.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, same.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, what did you like about it?
GIN JENNY: So like I said, I liked the way the unreliable narrator functioned. I thought all that was really interesting, and I thought the gradual reveal of what happened with her husband and child was quite good. And I liked it that it went just full-on bananas at the end. We find out that she killed her husband and child, and then she savagely attacks Lucy and busts all her stuff up, and stabs her with scissors, and is letting her bleed out. So, you know how I enjoy a bonkers story, so I liked that about it a lot.
WHISKEY JENNY: Cool, yeah.
GIN JENNY: But I think overall I would say I didn’t love it. it was just OK, in the last analysis.
WHISKEY JENNY: Right, yeah. I thought it was strange, the age difference between Lucy and Neil, as well. So Annie’s previous marriage, she was 19 and her husband was quite a bit older. And the people next door are, I think, of a similar age difference. Lucy is 19ish and Neil is 35. And I kept expecting there to be a parallel or something because of the age gap there, that was going to be part of the reveal. But no, I think it seems like I’m supposed to root for Lucy and Neil. It was just strange that that wasn’t— that that was totally normal and totally fine. That’s not the weird part of this book.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: And it’s interesting that there was that parallel, but I don’t think, maybe I missed it, but I didn’t think that the parallel was taken any further than that.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I don’t think it was either. And that would have been interesting.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I guess— I meant to mention this when we were talking about people being cruel to her. But in the lines of things that I noticed the book doing well was, there are times when you really empathize with her. When she was trying to throw that party—
GIN JENNY: Oh, god, that was brutal.
WHISKEY JENNY: It was brutal, and I was rooting so hard for that party to go well, but I knew the party was not going to go well. And it was—
GIN JENNY: It was horribly uncomfortable.
WHISKEY JENNY: Awful. It was so uncomfortable.
GIN JENNY: And I felt so grateful to the kind couple from down the road who came over and were so nice, and so game and kind to her as the party was going really badly.
WHISKEY JENNY: I guess I was impressed, at least, that— at that point, you already know the extent of her— not the extent of her past, but you know that she is inventing this entirely fictitious relationship with her neighbor. But you’re still rooting for that party to go really well for her. You still don’t want these horrible things to happen that you know it’s going to be really embarrassing and Lucy’s going to be mean, because she’s a mean pretty girl. So I was impressed that I still wanted that party to go well, despite everything.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, me too.
WHISKEY JENNY: That was well done, I thought. Oh, you know, here’s a thing that I liked. There was a milkman in the beginning. And I was like, oh cool, do they still have milkmen? [LAUGHTER] I didn’t know that that was still a thing happening. And I like, man, I wish I had a milkman.
GIN JENNY: That would be too much milk. Gosh, that would be prohibitively much milk. I’m terrified just thinking about it.
WHISKEY JENNY: He would have to give me a small amount of milk.
GIN JENNY: If he could get me like, one cup of milk a week, that would be great.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. But I didn’t realize that was still a thing happening, so that was delightful.
GIN JENNY: Way to go England, if that’s true.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, way to go England. I did figure out— I did not realize this book was set in England. But on page two, after she had used settee, bedsit, and tram, I was like, wait a minute.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: [SUSPICIOUSLY] Hang on a second.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: I think it felt strangely old fashioned at times though. Would you agree with that?
GIN JENNY: It felt suburban in the way that I expected. No, I don’t think if felt old fashioned. I’m sorry. I failed the city.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: No, you haven’t at all. I do think that part of that might be she had this very formal speaking and narration style.
GIN JENNY: Yes, definitely.
WHISKEY JENNY: And maybe that’s what— maybe that was part of—
GIN JENNY: Yeah, I can see that. She talks in a very careful way, I guess.
WHISKEY JENNY: Almost in an academic way.
GIN JENNY: Yes.
WHISKEY JENNY: Like she’s writing this as sort of an academic retelling of events from prison.
GIN JENNY: Well, I didn’t intend for this to bum you out as much as I’m sure that it did.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, no of course not.
GIN JENNY: And I apologize.
WHISKEY JENNY: I know you didn’t.
GIN JENNY: I wouldn’t do that to you. I just want you to know I wouldn’t do that to you on purpose.
WHISKEY JENNY: I know. I know that. I did— you know, I did really hate it.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: So successful in that sense.
WHISKEY JENNY: Most of the rest of my notes are just like, oh god, oh god, oh god. [LAUGHTER] Christ, oh god.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it was at times hard to read. The secondhand embarrassment thing was very intense for a lot of this book.
WHISKEY JENNY: The secondhand embarrassment, and then when she starts recounting her experience as a mother, and how she killed her husband was rough. Just rough.
GIN JENNY: Just awful.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, it was rough.
GIN JENNY: Well, we’re putting one short pause on the Hatening, not because I don’t deserve it. But do you want to tell the people what we’re doing next time, Whiskey Jenny?
WHISKEY JENNY: I do. Well, this also means that I get a reprieve of extra time to pick my Hatening pick. Because I have not totally nailed it down yet. So this is good news for me as well personally. But we are going to read Soon, by Andrew Santella.
GIN JENNY: It is Soon, an Overdue History of Procrastination from Leonardo and Darwin to You and Me.
WHISKEY JENNY: And Andrew Santella is going to be on the podcast to answer our questions like sea or space, and other important questions.
GIN JENNY: Very, very, very important, yeah. So Andrew Santella spotted in himself the inclination to procrastinate and then set out to learn more about it and about procrastinators throughout history. So I’m excited for him to tell us all about that. It’s coming out on March 13, and we’re very excited to read it, and we hope you guys are too.
WHISKEY JENNY: This has been the Reading the End bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys, Hatening part one, very special episode. You can visit the blog at readingtheend.com. You can follow us on Twitter @readingtheend. We’re both on Goodreads as Whiskey jenny and Gin Jenny. You can email us— please do. We love hearing from you— at readingtheend@gmail.com. And if you’re listening to us on iTunes, please leave us a review. It helps other people find us.
Until next time, from The Ninth Hour, by Alice McDermott. “Quoting her, our father sometimes said, ‘Isn’t it funny how we all die at the same time? Always at the end of our lives. Why worry?’“
[CLINK]THEME SONG: You don’t judge a book by its cover. Page one’s not a much better view. And shortly you’re gonna discover the middle won’t mollify you. So whether whiskey’s your go-to or you’re like my gin-drinking friend, no matter what you are imbibing, you’ll be better off in the end reading the end.
[BEEP]WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, but I don’t think you could— I— I— if— I— Sorry.