The holidays are in full swing chez Jennys, and we are back with many exciting holiday newses. Chief amongst our pieces of news is that we are bringing back the Holiday Gift Guide, wherein we suggest books for you to buy your loved ones. Fill out the form here! (Your deadline for submissions is December 7th.) Meanwhile, we are also finishing The Two Towers, admitting to bookish skeletons in our closets, and reading Suzanne Brockmann’s Ready to Roll, AKA, Boat Squad John.
You can listen to the podcast using the embedded player below, or download the file directly to take with you on the go!
Here are the time signatures if you want to skip around.
1:34 – What we’re reading
4:00 – What we’re listening to
6:48 – Lord of the Rings Readalong – The Two Towers, Book 4, Chapters 6-10
15:19 – Bookish skeletons in our closet
29:48 – The Forcening, Part Two: Ready to Roll, Suzanne Brockmann
43:42 – What we’re reading next time!
44:30 – Preview of holiday programming
And here are the things we discussed on this podcast!
Jane Doe, Victoria Helen Stone
Number One Chinese Restaurant, Lillian Li
Pandora Christmas station
the Roches – We Three Kings
Peter, Paul, and Mary – A Holiday Celebration
Table Manners (a podcast)
The Two Towers, JRR Tolkien
Pride and Prejudice (1995)
Pride and Prejudice (2005)
The Lizzie Bennet Diaries
Hamlet, William Shakespeare
Macbeth, William Shakespeare
Rafe, the Buff Male Nanny, Rebekah Weatherspoon
The Count of Monte Cristo
YOU CAN WATCH THE WISHBONE VERSION ON YOUTUBE
A Genius for Deception, Nicholas Rankin
Sourcery, Terry Pratchett
Greensleeves, Eloise Jarvis McGraw
Howl’s Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones
Ready to Roll, Suzanne Brockmann
Washington Black, Esi Edugyan
Holiday gift guide submission form, once more
The Princess Switch (Netflix movie)
All the holiday movies, a list compiled by Vulture
Get at me on Twitter, email the podcast, and friend me (Gin Jenny) and Whiskey Jenny on Goodreads. If you like what we do, support us on Patreon. Or if you wish, you can find us on iTunes (and if you enjoy the podcast, give us a good rating! We appreciate it very very much).
Credits
Producer: Captain Hammer
Photo credit: The Illustrious Annalee
Theme song by: Jessie Barbour
Transcripts by: Sharon of Library Hungry
Transcript is available below the jump!
WHISKEY JENNY: Hello, and welcome back to the Reading the End bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys. I’m Whiskey Jenny.
GIN JENNY: And I’m Gin Jenny.
WHISKEY JENNY: And we’re back to talk about books and literary happenings. On today’s podcast we have a very full agenda. We’re going to talk about what we’re reading. We’re going to talk about what we are listening to. We are going to finish The Two Towers, so that’s chapters 6 through 10 of book four, the thrilling conclusion to The Two Towers. Our topic this week is bookish skeletons in our closet and some things that perhaps we—
GIN JENNY: Are not proud of.
WHISKEY JENNY: —don’t love to admit but are going to do it publicly. [LAUGHTER] We will conclude the Forcening of 2018 with my Forcening pick for Gin Jenny, which was Boat Squad John. That’s the real title. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: By Suzanne Brockmann.
WHISKEY JENNY: Then Gin Jenny will tell us what we’re reading next time. And then we have some exciting holiday programming announcements.
JENNYS: Yay!
WHISKEY JENNY: So first up, Gin Jenny, what are you reading?
GIN JENNY: I am reading a book called Jane Doe, by Victoria Helen Stone. This author previously wrote a lot of romance as Victoria Dahl, which I really liked. But apparently she’s done writing romance. She’s out of the romance biz.
WHISKEY JENNY: She’s just done?
GIN JENNY: Yeah, apparently. It’s so disappointing, because I really—she was the first contemporary romance author that I really read and liked, so I felt really sentimental about her books. But I’ve heard really good things about this book, and I’m enjoying it so far. It’s about this woman who, I think, wants revenge for a dead friend of hers. And so she’s insinuating herself into the life of the man who did her friend wrong, I think. Yeah. And then when she’s insinuated, she’s just going to ruin everything for him.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, God.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Great. OK.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: So it’s really fun so far. She’s very unsentimental. She’s like, I basically don’t like people, but I liked my friend Meg. Yeah, it promises to be dark and fun.
WHISKEY JENNY: Goodness gracious.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, what are you reading?
WHISKEY JENNY: I have just started The Number One Chinese Restaurant, by Lillian Li.
GIN JENNY: Oh, yay! How are you liking it?
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m liking it so far. I think that was one of my fall book preview books?
GIN JENNY: Yep, it was.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m enjoying it. I’ve really only just begun, but it promises to be what I want, which is a multigenerational family saga with a large cast of characters, set in a restaurant. I think I just really like books that are set in restaurants, I’m learning about myself. At the advanced age, I’m still learning new things about things I like.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I picked it up at the library, and I like, well, Whiskey Jenny seems really excited about this. Maybe I’ll like it, too. And I started reading it, and I was like, ugh, so many generations.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: What are all these generations doing here? [LAUGHTER] My problem right now with it is, it does have the like family tree on the flaps at the beginning and end. Which, it’s a real problem that that stresses me out but yet I love multigenerational family sagas and must always know who everyone is. Like, it’s a real trap. [LAUGHTER]
But I got from the library, so the dust jacket is pasted over half of the—
GIN JENNY: Oh my God.
WHISKEY JENNY: —of the map on each time. So I have to cobble it together by flipping front to back. [LAUGHTER] It’s just a real mess right now. I might have to rewrite it.
GIN JENNY: Maybe you could photograph each half and then meld them together and have it on your phone.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I might have to. Yeah. Also, I’m really enjoying the cover. It’s got a pretty turquoise cover with an upside down goose? Duck?
GIN JENNY: Fowl?
WHISKEY JENNY: Some sort of fowl creature. [LAUGHTER] I’ve kept walking by it in bookstores, too, and been like, mmm. Petting it and wanting it. But I knew I had it on hold at the library, and here it is.
GIN JENNY: Yay!
WHISKEY JENNY: So our lovely Patreon patrons voted for us to talk about what we are listening to this time. So what are you listening to, Gin Jenny?
GIN JENNY: I am very happily listening to Christmas music. And now it’s permitted. I’ve been listening to it illicitly up to now. [LAUGHTER] But now it’s the week after Thanksgiving, so I’m in the clear. I’m listening to my Pandora Christmas music station, which actually has a pretty good mix of traditional holiday staples and more contemporary stuff. So that’s good.
WHISKEY JENNY: Did you make this Pandora station?
GIN JENNY: No, it exists.
WHISKEY JENNY: Which one is it? How did you find it?
GIN JENNY: I think that one Christmas season, I went into Pandora and they said, do you want to listen to Christmas music? And I was like, yes.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Hey, cool.
GIN JENNY: And I’m also listening to The Roches’ Christmas album, which is beautiful. It’s called We Three Kings. And Peter, Paul, and Mary’s A Holiday Celebration, and those are my two most very favorite Christmas albums. So it’s been terrific. And also, separate from any influence by me, my toddler godchild really loves Christmas. And he wants to hear Christmas songs all the time, and talk about Christmas, and look at the Christmas tree.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s a lot of good stuff going on around Christmas time. He’s not wrong.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I went over there the other day. My dad was putting lights on his and my mom’s Christmas tree, and my godson was there. And when I walked in the door, he wriggled off my mother’s lap and was like, Christmas time, Aunt Jenny! And then he walked over to the tree and did a little dance to show me how excited he was.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Just so you’d understand which Christmas time he was talking about. It’s the one with this tree.
GIN JENNY: And then he said, Grandpa did it. Good job, Grandpa!
WHISKEY JENNY: Yay! Good job, Grandpa!
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Ah, Christmas. What are you listening to?
WHISKEY JENNY: I am listening to—on our favorite—[LAUGHTER] our favorite erotica podcast, My Dad Wrote a Porno, they guested on another podcast and then had that other podcast person on their podcast. So that was how I heard about it. I feel like I said podcast a whole bunch in that sentence.
[LAUGHTER]Anyways it’s this British singer Jessie Ware, who I was not familiar with beforehand but is a noted British singer, and her mom have people over for dinner. And they cook for them, and then they interview them. They have famous people over. Sorry, that’s key. [LAUGHTER] They have famous British people over for dinner and interview them. It really feels like a little dinner party, because they have the mic going the whole time, and you hear them clanging around in the kitchen and passing dishes around. Very well edited. Kudos to their editor for all that, because I’m sure it’s hard with all that banging going on.
But it’s really sweet. She bickers with her mom, and I’ve enjoyed learning about all these British celebrities that I had never heard of.
GIN JENNY: Excellent.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s called—[AHEM], I should tell you what it’s called. It’s called Table Manners.
GIN JENNY: Yup, seems important. Yup.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s called Table Manners.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: And I’ve listened to a few episodes and it is indeed extremely charming.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yay. I’m glad you liked it.
GIN JENNY: I did. All right, shall we finish up The Two Towers? I can’t believe we’re already finishing The Two Towers.
WHISKEY JENNY: I know! I can’t either! We’re two thirds of the way through.
GIN JENNY: OK, so I will do a quick summary. Basically all that happens is Frodo and Sam and Gollum conclude their business with Faramir and continue trudging towards Mordor. And Gollum kind of leads them—well, not kind of. Gollum leads him into a trap.
WHISKEY JENNY: For sure, yeah.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah. With a big spider. And they have to fight the spider, and Frodo and Sam get separated, which is pretty rough.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Whoo boy, yeah.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So how’d you feel about this section? I know that you are not the biggest fan of the Mordor sections.
WHISKEY JENNY: I am not. But this does have a very thrilling conclusion, and a very Sam-heavy conclusion. So I do enjoy Sam getting to be a hero at the end.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: And I don’t know if it was page count shorter than some other sections, but—
GIN JENNY: It was.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, great. Well that’s why it went fast. [LAUGHTER] But yeah, it’s a great conclusion. Although it’s such a cliffhanger you really want to pick up Return of the King immediately after finishing this. Because I think it ends on the sentence, “Frodo was alive, but taken by the enemy.”
GIN JENNY: Yeah, yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Aah! Oh, I’m sorry. It ends with, “Sam hurled himself against the bolted brazen plates and fell senseless to the ground. He was out in the darkness. Frodo was alive but taken by the enemy.” It’s like, oh my God. It’s rough. What did you think of it?
GIN JENNY: So I liked it. This section is really sad for Gollum. I know that he’s not your favorite, but I did feel really sad for him throughout most of this.
WHISKEY JENNY: Me, too. And Sam is really mean to him at a key point.
GIN JENNY: Right. So first of all, Faramir’s men find Gollum swimming in their special sacred water or something. And they’re going to kill him.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I was not clear on why that water was like, you couldn’t do anything with it. But sure. Is it sacred, or is it just for security reasons?
GIN JENNY: And also, it’s already in Mordor. It seems despoiled in any case.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, totally.
GIN JENNY: But so to save him, Frodo has to trick Gollum, lie to him, and lure him into the arms of Faramir’s men, who imprison him. So that sucks, and Frodo feels bad about it, and he should.
WHISKEY JENNY: He should. He betrayed Gollum’s trust, and Gollum’s not the most willingly trusting person, so he really burned a whole bunch of bridges there.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah. And then there’s—to me, the sequences that follow of trudging—which again, I know not your favorite—but I thought these were very evocative. And you really feel their weariness. And Frodo and Sam are both really tired, but they have to climb and climb and climb and climb up a cliff face, essentially, it sounds like. And it’s really scary.
And there’s this really lovely moment where they see this statue from the olden days of a good old-time king. And it’s been graffitied or whatever, but for a moment the light hits it in this way that looks really beautiful. And they’re like, oh, the king has his crown again, and it’s this moment of hope. And then the light fades. And it’s just a really beautiful moment in my opinion.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. And then there’s a lovely passage about Gollum and how—the hobbits are sleeping and he’s reaching out to touch Frodo, not for any nefarious purposes, but because he’s having a moment of—
GIN JENNY: Affection.
WHISKEY JENNY: —kinship with them and affection. Yeah.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. And it talks about how if you just looked out of the side of your eye, you would think he was another old hobbit.
GIN JENNY: I thought the passage itself was really—I wrote this down, too, because I thought it was great.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, OK.
GIN JENNY: It says, “For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old, weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin and the fields and streams of youth, and old, starved, pitiable thing.” That’s so sad.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s really sad. Yeah, it is really sad. And then immediately after, Sam makes up and is like, what are you doing you dirty sneak, and is really mean to him. I mean, apologizes later, but the damage is done.
GIN JENNY: And it’s a point at which it seems really possible that Gollum could have made different choices, but because of Sam’s mistrust of him he doesn’t.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I do also really love, I think—during the trudging, while we’re on the trudging, Sam has a lovely passage that I really liked where he’s talking about stories and being in stories. I really like that sort of writerly insert, it feels almost.
GIN JENNY: Yes.
WHISKEY JENNY: For one of your characters to talk about stories. But it’s long paragraph, so I’ll just read a couple of lines from it.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it’s really good.
WHISKEY JENNY: He said, “Adventures, as I used to call them. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of a sport, as you might say. But that’s not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them usually, their paths were laid that way, as you put it. But I expect they had lots of chances like us of turning back, only they didn’t.” So I thought that was really nice about—
GIN JENNY: Oh my gosh, me too. I got chills with your reading that.
WHISKEY JENNY: You have to keep choosing to go on more and more. And then he talks about how you would want to make sure that you fall into a story with a good end, and that’s not always the best kind of story to read about, which I thought was a funny little joke.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: It’s really, really sweet. And it’s nice that it happens, because as soon as they get to Shelob’s lair, everything is so horrible and scary.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Gosh. It’s really terrifying, but the thing that I was noticing on this read is Tolkien talks about how much malice this giant spider thing has, and how evil it is. And I’m like, is it? I mean, is it, or is it just trying to eat?
GIN JENNY: Yeah, no, it’s a great question. The hobbits are pretty evil to rabbits, you know?
WHISKEY JENNY: Right. I don’t know, it was just a weird thing, that I don’t know why you had to make this spider evil. It’s an equally scary thing in their path if it’s just trying to eat them. [LAUGHTER] It’s still a giant spider with the paralysis poison or whatever.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, for sure. And they fight—this is nice, because they get to use Galadriel’s elven light. It is a light for them in dark places. And they’re so brave!
WHISKEY JENNY: They are so brave. I would like to point out that it was Sam’s idea to use the light, that Frodo totally forgot about it. Look who’s dumb now, Frodo!
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: And then they get separated. And when Sam finds Frodo again, he’s all bound up in spider webs and he appears to be dead.
WHISKEY JENNY: He thinks he’s dead! And Sam is grieving for him.
GIN JENNY: And he says, “Don’t go where I can’t follow,” which is such a heartbreaking line.
WHISKEY JENNY: But then he has a couple of heroic moments where he just totally charges after the spider. He says he doesn’t even think about it or think about being brave. “Sam did not wait to wonder what was to be done, or whether he was brave or loyal or filled with rage.”
GIN JENNY: Aw.
WHISKEY JENNY: “No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in this savage world of beasts.” No onslaught more fierce!
GIN JENNY: Aw.
WHISKEY JENNY: And then later on, he defeats the spider, basically. And it says, “No such anguish had Shelob ever known or dreamed of knowing in all her long world of wickedness. Not the doughtiest soldier of old Gondor nor the most savage orc entrapped had ever thus endured her or set blade to her beloved flesh.”
GIN JENNY: So good.
WHISKEY JENNY: And Sam! Sam did that! Nobody else.
GIN JENNY: Sam is the best. And to me even braver—because he does that kind of on instinct, even though it’s still very brave. But then he goes back to Frodo and he realizes that he has to carry out the rest of the quest completely by himself.
WHISKEY JENNY: He does. He decides to go on.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So he takes the ring and he takes Frodo’s sword, his special orc sword.
WHISKEY JENNY: He also takes the light, and he says he takes it because, “for I’ll always be in the dark now.”
GIN JENNY: Aw.
WHISKEY JENNY: Augh! Sam! He loves him so much. He’s the best. Frodo doesn’t deserve this love.
GIN JENNY: That’s so true.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: I know, Frodo’s got a lot going on, I know, I know.
GIN JENNY: I guess, OK. But then what happens?
WHISKEY JENNY: Then, I remember reading the first time and thinking Frodo was dead. And I remember this part where you think is dead lasting for a book, basically. [LAUGHTER] It’s like two pages. And then some orcs come along and find the body, and he overhears them talking. He’s got the ring on, which apparently gives you a translation skills?
GIN JENNY: OK, sure, whatever, Tolkien.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, so he can understand the orcs now talking in their own language, and they say that Frodo is not dead! He’s just been given a poison by Shelob that incapacitates you and makes you looked dead. But he’s not dead! He’s alive! But now he’s captured by orcs. No!
GIN JENNY: And it’s too late! Sam is too late to get back to him.
WHISKEY JENNY: He’s too late.
GIN JENNY: And then the gates shut and Frodo is alive but taken by the enemy, as discussed.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, God, it’s so much.
GIN JENNY: Oh, it’s so much. And also, I should add, The Return of the King I believe, if I’m remembering correctly—no, actually, I can’t swear to that. Do they start with Frodo and Sam?
WHISKEY JENNY: I think it starts in Gondor, and you’re like, what!?
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah, that’s what I thought. So you have to wait even longer. Well and also, we are going to leave you listeners on a cliffhanger, because we are going to resume Lord of the Rings readalong in the new year.
WHISKEY JENNY: 2019, can you believe it?
GIN JENNY: Yes! It’s crazy. No, I cannot believe it. So we’re going to read book 5, chapters 1 through 4 of Return of the King. So for this week—we had actually, we got a little behind in our podcasting. Y’all may have noticed.
WHISKEY JENNY: We did. So sorry.
GIN JENNY: November was really busy. Shockingly busy.
WHISKEY JENNY: I got sick.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. I had many work events that I had to do. And then the midterm elections. It was just a mess. November was a mess.
WHISKEY JENNY: It was rough.
GIN JENNY: We intended this to be—actually, I think we originally intended this to be a spooky October topic. So it’s actually not that spooky, so don’t worry about it, but we’re going to talk about bookish skeletons in our closet. So stuff that we’re maybe don’t feel great about ourselves for.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, so there are several ways that we thought we could take this. I have, let’s see. I have three categories.
GIN JENNY: Categories? Oh my goodness. I didn’t do categories. I just did—all right, well, go. I bet I can slot mine into your categories.
WHISKEY JENNY: So unpopular book opinions. Books that you did not like that everyone else liked, that you feel bad you didn’t like.
GIN JENNY: OK, so I don’t have one of these, because I stand by my book opinions mostly. But I do not like the 1995 adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. Not only do I really, really hate Jennifer Ehle as Elizabeth, I hate Colin Firth as Darcy.
WHISKEY JENNY: I haven’t seen this one so I can’t weigh in. But I know that this is a shocking opinion.
GIN JENNY: People are really fond of it, and I try to kind of hedge this a little bit. I try not to say the words “I hate Colin Firth as Darcy.” But I do. I think he’s terrible.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, we all know that the only Pride and Prejudice I recognize currently, because it’s the only one I’ve seen, is the Keira Knightley movie, so.
GIN JENNY: Not true. You also recognize—I mean, I hope you recognize The Lizzie Bennet Diaries.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, of course! The Lizzie Bennet Diaries. That’s right, yes.
GIN JENNY: I think both the 2005 movie and The Lizzie Bennet Diaries are better adaptations of Pride and Prejudice than the Jennifer Ehle miniseries.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well there you go.
GIN JENNY: I feel like listeners are just deleting me from their podcast app right now.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Blazing hot take from Gin Jenny on Pride and Prejudice.
GIN JENNY: OK, what about you? What are books you like—or dislike that everyone else likes?
WHISKEY JENNY: Hamlet. I feel like everyone cannot stop talking about Hamlet, and it’s the best Shakespeare play, and blahdidy blah, but I don’t like it.
GIN JENNY: I don’t like it either. I hate Hamlet. He’s so wishy-washy. I know that’s the point, but I hate that point.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes! It’s so annoying to read, or listen. It’s just like, will you just make up your mind, buddy?
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I like Macbeth. Macbeth has everything. Murder.
WHISKEY JENNY: Witches.
GIN JENNY: Other mean ladies.
WHISKEY JENNY: Macbeth is so much fun. Team Macbeth as the best tragedy.
GIN JENNY: I strongly agree. And also I think Macbeth has a ton of really beautiful language. I don’t think Hamlet has the edge on that.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, no, agreed.
GIN JENNY: Take that, Shakespeare!
WHISKEY JENNY: And I will also say, when I joined Goodreads, I made a pledge that I would not hide anything from Goodreads, and I have kept up with that, and that’s been very helpful to not make me ashamed of things that I read and like or dislike in general.
GIN JENNY: That’s great.
WHISKEY JENNY: Everything goes on there. Recently I was a little bit like, should I? This is a little—for Rafe the Buff Male Nanny.
GIN JENNY: The Buff Male Nanny.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Because like the title is a little, you know.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it’s a little on the nose.
WHISKEY JENNY: Does what it says on the tin. But I did really enjoy that book. I loved it so much that I sent an email to the author just to be like, I really liked this book and it got me through a tough time. Then a few other people saw it on my Goodreads and said that they picked it up because of that. And I was like, well see? Good things come when you put things on your Goodreads.
GIN JENNY: So true.
WHISKEY JENNY: Don’t be ashamed of putting Buff Male Nanny on your Goodreads.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, so that was that category. The other category is books you have been meaning to read but have not.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: Which is where I really fall down. I looked at my to be read shelf, which is not really a shelf. It’s a whole bookcase. [LAUGHTER] I approximate that there are 120 books on there, which is a lot.
GIN JENNY: That’s not terrible, though.
WHISKEY JENNY: I am really great at lying to myself that I’m going to read all of them. [LAUGHTER] Which I am. Including Snow, by Orhan Pamuk.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I think that I said two years ago you should get rid of that.
WHISKEY JENNY: You did. And I didn’t. I still have it. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: Next time I’m in town, I’m just going to steal it and hide it.
WHISKEY JENNY: No! I’ll notice it. [LAUGHTER] I did get rid of, recently, some books that I had not read, which I felt very empowered to do. But now I feel good about the one that I still have. I’m like, no, these are the ones. I’m going to read these.
GIN JENNY: The cream of the crop.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] So there’s a lot on there that I want to read. And I’m just in general bad at—I don’t have a solid classic literature base, I guess. So I could get better at that. I haven’t even read all of Jane Austen’s, and there’s only six of those. Like, that’s so easy, but I haven’t.
GIN JENNY: As I get older and older, I feel like I’m less and less motivated to read the classics, because I have less and less faith in the literary canon as a thing that I should care about.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, sure, but some of them are good.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, no, some of them totally are good. But I just feel like when I was younger, like when I was in high school and college, I was much more inclined to read the classics, both as school assignments, but also I would give myself assignments. I’d be like, you know what? You should read Lord of the Flies. In retrospect, no I shouldn’t. I was fine without Lord of the Flies. It’s stupid.
WHISKEY JENNY: I think that’s a good point, though, not to trust the canon. Because racist patriarchy.
GIN JENNY: Exactly.
WHISKEY JENNY: But yeah, there are some good ones in there that I still haven’t read. But the key is finding them. How do we know which ones are the good ones? [LAUGHTER] That’s always the key, isn’t it?
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So I have a small confession in this category. Because one of the things we had proposed was books you claim to have read that you haven’t. And Whiskey Jenny was like, I would never do that.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, I would not.
GIN JENNY: So I don’t do that either. However, ahem. I have never read The Count of Monte Cristo in its entirety.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh.
GIN JENNY: I had the—I know. I had the Classic Comics version when I was a kid, and I read it a million times. And I’ve seen some movie adaptations of it, so I have a lot of affection for it. So I don’t say I’ve read that book, but I do say The Count of Monte Cristo rules, which gives the impression that I’ve read the whole thing, but I haven’t.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hm. OK. Do you want to read it someday?
GIN JENNY: No, yes, I totally do. And I have it on my shelf, and I’m going to read it. I just haven’t.
WHISKEY JENNY: I think I watched the—
GIN JENNY: Wishbone?
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: No, but adorable. [LAUGHTER] No, not Wishbone. The Leonardo DiCaprio adaptation? Nope, I’m thinking of Man in the Iron Mask. Never mind.
GIN JENNY: OK. I was just going to be like, what? Did I miss that somehow?
WHISKEY JENNY: Never mind, never mind.
GIN JENNY: So I’ve seen the Jim Caviezel adaptation. And when I was a kid, my mom would always talk about how great The Count of Monte Cristo was. And I was little, so I hadn’t read it. And I kept waiting for Wishbone to do The Count of Monte Cristo. And the day that it finally came on—this is before we had a VCR, so I couldn’t tape it. The day it finally came on we had to leave and go get allergy shots for my sister and mother. And I was like, nooooo! [LAUGHTER] It was so sad. I still feel so sad about it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Have you watched it since? Can you go back and find it?
GIN JENNY: You know, I probably could. I could look on YouTube.
WHISKEY JENNY: I bet you could, yeah.
GIN JENNY: I just, I waited and waited for it. And I wasn’t even sure it existed. And then it finally—the Holy Grail arrived, but I was not available to drink from it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Alas.
GIN JENNY: Alas. I should also say that I think I’m pretty OK at buying books that I want to read and reading them in the category of fiction. But where nonfiction is concerned, I am super, super, super, super bad about it. Because I see something that’s nonfiction that I might be interested in. And especially if it’s on sale I’m like, well, I might as well get this, because I’ll want to read it eventually. And I do. But at some point that tips into a book hoarding situation.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no! Are you making progress? Is the number of those trending up or down?
GIN JENNY: Super trending up. I started—the problem is I’ve started going to work events at least thrice yearly at which there is a lot of nonfiction for sale.
WHISKEY JENNY: I accidentally bought a second copy of a book recently. [LAUGHTER] So now I have two, and I haven’t read either one.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: What book is it?
WHISKEY JENNY: It was A Genius for Deception, by Nicholas Rankin, and it was about how British spies and tricks were a part of World War I and World War II. Yeah, which sounds really fun. And I saw it and was like, oh, that sounds really fun. [LAUGHTER] I don’t think I have a copy of that. But just in case, I’d better get it, because it’s only $1. And then got it, and was like, no, I already have a copy of that. [LAUGHTER] So if you want one, tweet @readingtheend and you can have it for free.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: OK, so that’s that category.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, so last category is bad library habit.
GIN JENNY: I have several of these, and they’re pretty bad.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK. Well, one of the questions we thought we could answer was the most overdue library book that you’ve ever returned, which I’m not sure about. It’s probably like two months. But I do have one out now that’s a month and a half overdue, so that one is rapidly becoming the most late one.
GIN JENNY: My most late one—so basically I only go to the library on Saturdays, which means my books are always due on Saturdays. Which means that every Saturday morning when I have my coffee, I also renew my library books, and that’s my routine. But occasionally something happens and I don’t do the routine. And then sometimes all my books are overdue at once because I went to the library on Thursday.
WHISKEY JENNY: Or sometimes you can’t renew things, like if they’re on hold and you can’t renew them.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. That’s very true. But I think my most overdue book was a Terry Pratchett book called Sourcery. When I was about 14, I was trying to get into Terry Pratchett because everyone was like, oh, he’s just like Diana Wynne Jones, you’ll love him. And I knew that I wouldn’t, A of all. [LAUGHTER] And secondly, I tried to read this book and I hated it. And then I put it away somewhere and then I lost it and it was terrible.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And you know, if you lose a book from a library, you have to pay for it. And I was a kid, so I didn’t have that much money. So it was just overdue and overdue, and I was hunting for it and hunting for it. I was like, I don’t want to pay for this book that I hate!
WHISKEY JENNY: Did you find it?
GIN JENNY: I did. I eventually found it. I put it in my—I had this little chest that lived under my bed, and I had stuck it in there for some reason. Who knows?
WHISKEY JENNY: Weird.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. That’s the least shameful of my library skeletons.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK. Well, sometimes I don’t pick up my holds. This time I couldn’t because it came in over Thanksgiving week and I was out of town. And I feel really bad about that. I feel like I made the library work really hard to bring it to where I told them to bring it, and then I was just like, whatever. I don’t want it anymore and flounced off. [LAUGHTER] I don’t think they hold it against me personally, but I feel like they could if they wanted to.
That book that I couldn’t pick up was The Best Bad Things, which is another of my fall reading books, so.
GIN JENNY: Tsk tsk tsk.
WHISKEY JENNY: I know I know but it came in when I was over Thanksgiving! I can’t—
GIN JENNY: No, what were you going to do? I was actually going to say—I’m just kidding. I was actually going to say that’s not very shameful.
WHISKEY JENNY: And just in general I’m bad at borrowing books from friends and then holding—not ruining them, but holding onto them forever for a while.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: That’s true. I’ve seen those books in your apartment.
WHISKEY JENNY: There’s like ten of them and they’re still around. And I will read them someday. [LAUGHTER] I swear.
GIN JENNY: OK, this is a bad one. I’ve confessed this to you before, and you gave me such a look, and I knew I deserved it. [LAUGHTER] So I used to—I don’t do this anymore, because I have strategically placed bookmarks all around my house. And I also have page flags all around my house, so I have two methods of dealing with this problem. But I used to dogear library books, but I would never dogear my own books.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Did you hear that? That’s why she got the look.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, no. I deserved it. I really did. But I’ve stopped now. I have page flags everywhere.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hooray!
GIN JENNY: Everywhere that I might sit and read a book, including on the bus. I have page flags in my purse now.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hooray!
GIN JENNY: For emergencies.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’ve also started, if I don’t have page flags but it’s an emergency, taking pictures of the page on my phone.
GIN JENNY: Oh, yeah, of course. I should do that. That’s a really good obvious solution that I didn’t think of. [LAUGHTER] Smart.
WHISKEY JENNY: You know, in case you only have your phone on you and not page flags.
GIN JENNY: OK, I’ll do that too. I will never, ever, ever dogear a book again.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yay! I mean, you can dogear your own.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, no, I know. It’s bad. I’m ashamed of myself. And I was at the time. I told you it because I was ashamed and I knew you would make me feel ashamed-er, which I deserved.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel ashamed.
GIN JENNY: No, no, no. You did and you should.
WHISKEY JENNY: You know what you did.
[LAUGHTER]Any other things you want to admit?
GIN JENNY: OK, actually I have two more in this category, I guess. OK, so one time I stole a book from the library. I told you about this. The library was getting rid of all the books by this one author that I like and selling them for $0.10 in the front of the library. I had bought several of them. And they had this book Greensleeves which at the time was out of print and was quite difficult to find in used bookstores. So I did not have the means to get a copy.
And I was worried that the library was going to get rid of their only copy so I would not be able to check it out and I would have no access to it at all, and that they were going to sell it for $0.10, and I wouldn’t happen to be at the library when it was on sale for $0.10, so I wouldn’t get it. So in advance of that happening, I checked the book out, and then I came back to the library a couple of weeks later. And I was like, I went to Guam and I lost it in Guam.
WHISKEY JENNY: In Guam? [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: I know. It was a weird lie.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t remember that part.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. And she was like, are you sure? And I thought she meant, are you lying to me? But my sister assures me that what she meant was, are you sure there’s no possibility you can get it back from Guam? And I was like, nope, it’s gone. It’s gone forever.
WHISKEY JENNY: Lost somewhere in Guam.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: So I paid for it. It was like $10. And I kept it, and I still have it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yep It’s not in Guam.
GIN JENNY: It’s not in Guam. I don’t regret that. I would do the same thing again, given the same information. But I know that it wasn’t great. It was not pro-social of me. And I know that.
WHISKEY JENNY: Is the book easier to obtain now?
GIN JENNY: Yes, it is. And this is another reason I feel bad. Yeah, it’s back in print now.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, that’s good. For the book in general.
GIN JENNY: But I have a hardback.
[LAUGHTER]The other thing that I did that I have to confess is, so when I was dating my first boyfriend in college, I really wanted him to read Diana Wynne Jones. I know you’re shocked to hear this news. And I was always lending him books that he wouldn’t read, because—which is fine. Like, some people don’t want to read, and I was being very like, read this, read this, I’m lending it to you.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, I do the same thing. And I borrow in the same way. I’m like, OK, great, yeah, lend that to me. And then I don’t read it for four years.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: But so we were at a thrift store. There was a hardback copy of Howl’s Moving Castle, which is a really great starter book for Diana Wynne Jones newbies. And I bought it for him. It was $1. And I was like, here, now you have a copy. And it was, you know, it was a present. And then when we broke up and he was planning to bring me all the books I had lent him back, I was like, hey, I want Howl’s Moving Castle back, even though it was a present. It was not something I lent him. It was a gift, and I asked for it back.
WHISKEY JENNY: Did he give it back?
GIN JENNY: He did. Family opinion was very split about whether this was OK for me to do.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, really? Oh, my.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it was a hot controversy.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, I mean, it was a gift, but I think that you didn’t frame it as something that you expected back from him. Like, it was an additional ask.
GIN JENNY: Well, and also I really don’t think he was ever going to read it. And even if he did read it, a hardback of that book would not mean to him what it meant to me. And so that’s why I was like, uh—I’m sure he doesn’t bear a grudge, but at the time I fretted over it a lot.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. Yeah, no, I understand. It’s a gray area, for sure.
GIN JENNY: It is. Yeah. OK, so those are all my—I’m glad I’ve gotten all that off my chest. Those are all my bookish skeletons. Now the world knows.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hooray.
GIN JENNY: Hooray!
WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t think I have any more, except there are some books that you have generously bought me for Christmases or gifts past that I still haven’t read. But that’s it.
GIN JENNY: Oh, pssh. I mean, that’s not a thing. That happens with everyone.
WHISKEY JENNY: Sure.
GIN JENNY: Well, speaking of books you love—
WHISKEY JENNY: Yes?
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: What did we read for the Forcening?
WHISKEY JENNY: We read Boat Squad John! Yay! By Suzanne Brockmann. It’s actually called Ready to Roll. But it’s actually actually called Boat Squad John. [LAUGHTER] And this was my Forcening pick for Gin Jenny. And as I was rereading it I was like, oh, I sort of blocked out like half of this book. So I sent her a very apologetic text to be like, I’m sorry I sold this as fluffy, because there’s also a lot of abuse in it. [LAUGHTER] So, Gun Jenny, what did you think?
GIN JENNY: Well so, when I got your text I hadn’t read it yet. And I was like, oh shoot, I hope they’re—what I thought you meant was that there was problematic storyline in it and I was going to be mad at Suzanne Brockmann.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, and it wasn’t that at all. So actually that was kind of a relief.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, good. Well, I’m glad I got to you before you started, too, and warned you, it’s not all fluff.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So I would not exactly describe it as delightful, because as you say, it deals with some tough issues. However I enjoyed it a lot. I was very pleased to be reading it the whole time I was reading it. And it was just in general an extremely positive experience. So thank you for this.
WHISKEY JENNY: Really? Yay! Oh, yay! I was worried. I didn’t know.
GIN JENNY: No, I really dug it. It was really charming.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m so glad. I’m so pleased. I’m so happy. I’m smiling so big right now.
GIN JENNY: Yay! [LAUGHTER] I’m glad I finally read it, too. You’ve been talking about it for so long, and I’ve just been dragging my feet somehow.
WHISKEY JENNY: Such is the—the—
GIN JENNY: Nature of the Forcening?
WHISKEY JENNY: There we go. [LAUGHTER] Thank you. I couldn’t think of that word. [LAUGHTER] I’m glad you enjoyed it.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, so do you want to start with the domestic violence plotline and then get to Boat Squad John second?
WHISKEY JENNY: Let’s get that one out of the way. The domestic violence and the homophobia plotline that I just totally blocked out. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: Yeah, so there’s this kid, Ben. And I don’t really understand his relationship to everyone, but he is in the circle of various Navy SEALs.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, one thing I was going to say about that is, I am so glad that you didn’t Forcen a book like this on me, because it’s in the middle of the series. And it’s like 14 bajillion characters in the SEAL team and adjacent people. And they’re always like, and Izzy, wife of Eden—[LAUGHTER] you’re like, who the hell’s Eden? Sister of Dan—who’s Dan?
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Yeah, luckily I don’t care about any of that. So I just ignored it and breezed past it.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I’m really glad that it went this way and not the other way. So [LAUGHTER] thanks for hanging in there. But yeah, so Ben, who is part of the circle.
GIN JENNY: Is gay, and he is a survivor of household violence. And he finds out that the school bully, Wade, is actually gay himself, but he’s keeping it a secret so that his older brother Cody won’t actually kill him. And Cody also has a girlfriend named Angel who he’s abusing. So Ben gets extremely involved in trying to get Angel and Wade out of this situation.
WHISKEY JENNY: Correct. How did you think it was handled?
GIN JENNY: So I don’t know the most about domestic violence, so take this with a grain of salt. But this is kind of a fluffy book in terms of prestige level, but I thought that the author treated the subject of domestic violence with thoughtfulness and care. And that was really cool.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I agree. I also don’t know a lot, but it seemed like she tried to do her research and be responsible about the way that she was writing about it. So that was nice.
GIN JENNY: I did think the adults in Ben’s life let him be in more dangerous situations than I necessarily would have.
WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, yeah, for sure. Not trusted him too much, but—
GIN JENNY: I think they could have asked more follow up questions.
WHISKEY JENNY: Definitely. Yeah, I wrote down, like, Jen, don’t listen to the children on this one. [LAUGHTER] You’re the adult. You need to pay super close attention to what you’re seeing in front of your eyes.
GIN JENNY: Ben would be like, oh, my friend has a violent older brother. I’m going to go over there real quick, but nothing dangerous is going to happen. And she’d be like, OK!
WHISKEY JENNY: I mean, you don’t know that, Ben, and you therefore don’t know that, any of Ben’s guardians. And to be fair, half of Ben’s guardianship people have just had a new baby, so they have a lot going on, too. A very colicky new baby.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: Which is tough, oh my God.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.
GIN JENNY: But otherwise it was really sweet. Ben was a very sweet bunny.
WHISKEY JENNY: He is.
GIN JENNY: He really wanted the best for everyone, and that was really nice.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, he is a sweet bunny. And he sort of gets involved because he has a crush on Ryan, who’s dating, secretly, Wade. So he’s sort of in this awkward position where then he has to help them further their relationship, even though he formerly had feelings for this boy. And I think he handles it really well. He’s not a jerk about it or anything.
GIN JENNY: He’s not. He’s not ever like, oh, I’ve been friendzoned. I quit.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. And there are a couple of other people in the circle who are gay that he has some really nice moments with, to offer him support and things like that, that I really appreciated as well. Can we talk about the colicky baby real quick and then we can talk about Boat Squad John?
GIN JENNY: OK, yes. Colicky baby first, then.
WHISKEY JENNY: I just really appreciated that it wasn’t glossing over having a newborn and how it can be super difficult sometimes. It wasn’t like, and everything’s great and perfect and everyone loved their baby the most and it was beautiful.
But it was really hard sometimes. And sometimes people said the wrong thing and upset the mom. And she was having major postpartum depression. I just found it very realistic.
GIN JENNY: Yes I appreciate that, too, on its own merits. But also particularly because a lot of times romance will do this baby epilogue thing that I really hate.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.
GIN JENNY: Where they’ll conclude the romance and then there’ll be a chapter following where someone’s pregnant or about to have a baby, and they’re like, now our happiness is complete. And I’m always kind of like, uhhh.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.
GIN JENNY: I get what they’re doing, but it just feels a little weird to me.
WHISKEY JENNY: Agreed.
GIN JENNY: I used to kind of be like, oh, whatever, who cares. That doesn’t affect me and I just don’t have to care about it. But pretty recently I read a Sarah MacLean book in which one of the major plotlines for the heroine is that she is not able to have children, and it’s a big plotline throughout the book. And then there’s an epilogue chapter where it’s like, surprise! She had a baby after all. It’s like, well, then why did we go through all this emotional stuff about infertility? Yeah, so that made me kind of annoyed overall at the baby epilogue.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. It’s definitely a thing, also.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. So yeah, as you say, this was nice to see from a romance author.
WHISKEY JENNY: Also, before we just get to the meat of Boat Squad John, I also don’t know why the book is in this weird script narration format.
GIN JENNY: Me neither, but I also don’t care.
WHISKEY JENNY: They never explained it. It was never like, and that’s why we told our story to—[LAUGHTER] I don’t know, it’s as if they’re all in the interrogation room getting interviewed after the fact, but they’re not?
GIN JENNY: They’re not. It’s very strange.
[LAUGHTER]WHISKEY JENNY: Anyway, Boat Squad John. Let’s talk about Boat Squad John!
GIN JENNY: OK, tell us what the situation is with Boat Squad John.
WHISKEY JENNY: OK, the situation is—I feel like I’ve talked about this before, but—
GIN JENNY: Well, people might forget.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s never too much to talk about Boat Squad John. So Boat Squad John is a group of tadpoles, which is what they call SEALs-to-be, which is adorable. [LAUGHTER] So they’re trying to become SEALs, and they are starting Hell Week, which is the hardest week of all time of SEAL training. And the drop out percentage is insane, and hardly anyone makes it through Hell Week. And it’s terrible, and you get like four hours of sleep the whole time, and you lay in the cold ocean for hours and hours, and it’s awful. And the instructors are trying to make you quit, because they’re trying to make sure people who don’t quit make it through, I guess.
GIN JENNY: Yep.
WHISKEY JENNY: So you get put in your boat squads, and that’s who you carry around your little lifeboat—your large lifeboat around with, and that’s your little team for the week. And this one boat squad is all people with names or variations of John, and like Jonathan or Johnny, or J-O-N or J-O-H-N, or Hans. And they’re all in one boat squad, Boat Squad John.
There’s one tiny member of Boat Squad John, Jonathan Livingston, who’s been nicknamed, for obvious reasons, Seagull, who is sort of the heart and soul of Boat Squad John, and leads them all to victory, I would say. But he’s the secret heart and soul of Boat Squad John, and is doing all this secret leading. But he knows that if Hans, for example, is being a raging jackass—which he is for most of it—and needs to believe that he’s in charge, he will they let Hans think he’s in charge. Or if somebody needs a break and they’re struggling, he’ll mess up so that he gets the attention on him. And it’s just like, oh, Seagull is the best.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: He is the best. There’s a guy named Schloss who is the one that we think we’re not going to like, but then we do like him after all.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah! Hans.
GIN JENNY: And there’s also a guy named Timebomb who figures out Seagull’s deal pretty early on and is very devoted to him. He’s like, I’m sticking with this guy. He’s trustworthy.
WHISKEY JENNY: That’s his swim buddy. So you get paired up with someone special—in addition to your squad, you have a swim buddy. And Timebomb and Seagull are swim buddies. And yeah, they have a beautiful friendship. And yeah, then you start to like—I can’t remember if—I think Hans is his nickname because his name is John Schlossman and he’s blonde and German looking.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, sounds right.
WHISKEY JENNY: And at first he’s like, I’m the biggest, baddest dude. I’m going to survive. And I don’t know why we have to carry around this little featherweight Seagull around. He’s really bringing us down. I should be swim buddies with Time Bomb because Time Bomb’s also big and beefy. And then he learns what’s going on. He learns not to underestimate Seagull, like everyone does.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: I was thinking that all the Johns are friends, except for Hans was going to be the bad one. And then when I realized Hans was sticking around, I was like, well, I don’t like him. I can never possibly like him. But then you hear from him and he’s like, I messed up and I really regret it, and I want to be a better man. I was like, OK Hans!
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah! You’re back in, Hans. I like it that you’re rooting for all of Boat Squad John by the end. No one’s the villain of it trying to bring them down.
GIN JENNY: Definitely.
WHISKEY JENNY: Not even the instructor. I think it does a good job of—I don’t actually know what Hell Week is like, and I’m sure there’s a bunch of horrible hazing that I’m not pro. But I think it does a good job of showing the reasons behind why the instructors are doing what they’re doing, which seems like awful things to be doing to other human beings.
GIN JENNY: [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
WHISKEY JENNY: So you’re not even like, boo instructors. It’s just like, everyone’s yay, it’s great.
GIN JENNY: Yeah, no, it is really great. And then what happens at the end?
WHISKEY JENNY: OK. Oh my God. This is the best part. When I was rereading the part, I was like, oh, this is why I totally forgot about all the other stuff. Because it just explodes in my brain and it’s like a happy bomb going off and wipes out everything else. [LAUGHTER] I do wish you got more from all of Boat Squad John.
GIN JENNY: Me too. Q and Doe I don’t really know anything about.
WHISKEY JENNY: Exactly. It’s pretty centered on Seagull, Timebomb, and Hans. That’s my one note. But, OK. So at the end, Timebomb gets hurt. And that’s bad in going through SEALs training, because it means you have to get medically rolled, which means you have to do the whole thing over again. You don’t save your place. You have to start all over again. So they’re trying to hide his injury so that he doesn’t get medically rolled.
GIN JENNY: Because they’re so close to the end.
WHISKEY JENNY: They’re so close to the end of Hell Week in particular. They don’t want to have to do Hell Week over again either. The team now realizes that Seagull is their leader, and they’re all pro-Seagull and pro this team, and they’re a beautiful team working together. So they’re all working together to hide Timebomb’s injury. But then the instructors figure it out and are like, uh, no, he’s very injured. He has a broken collarbone and broken ribs and he could puncture a lung. So he gets medically rolled. So goodbye, Timebomb. And everyone’s sad about it.
But then Seagull is like, OK, we just gotta get through Hell Week. And we just gotta get through this one hard exercise. That’s the last hard thing we have to do. And after they do that, he marches up to the instructor and requests to be medically rolled. And the instructor’s like, what are you talking about? You’re not sick, and also, you know you have to do the whole thing over again.
And the guy’s like—he repeats his request, because he wants to go get medically rolled with Timebomb so that he stays with his swim buddy. And then the rest of Boat Squad John also is like, we also are hurt and we also request to be medically rolled. So they all request it, and the instructors don’t know what to do with them. [LAUGHTER] It’s so great. This is unprecedented in the history of Hell Week, and they get shuffled over to the tent somewhere. They don’t know what to do with them.
And then they all march them into Timebomb’s room, and everyone is happy to see Timebomb again. And I started sobbing when the instructor, Green, says the words. But he says, “Boat Squad John, you are secure.” Which means they all made it through Hell Week and they’re not actually getting medically rolled.
GIN JENNY: So from your retelling of the story to me previously, I did not realize that they didn’t actually have to do Hell Week again. I thought that the story ended with them having to do Hell Week again.
WHISKEY JENNY: No, they don’t!
GIN JENNY: Yeah! So that’s great. It was a really great bonus.
WHISKEY JENNY: Because they could tell that they were truly willing to do it all over again to all stay together. Then they say, OK, you pass, including Timebomb, who got injured. And it’s so happy. Yay!
GIN JENNY: Yeah, it was great. It was amazing. It was such a treat, at the very, very end.
WHISKEY JENNY: And I also love when the other—you get a little bit from the other members of Boat Squad John writing about why they did what they did. And the guy’s like, I mean, it was an easy choice between continuing on with SEAL training without Seagull or doing Hell Week again with Seagull, I would pick Hell Week again with Seagull every time. [LAUGHTER] I was like, oh my God, they all love Seagull so much.
GIN JENNY: He is a good leader.
WHISKEY JENNY: Gosh, what a good bunny. Several good bunnies in this book.
GIN JENNY: Definitely. I don’t necessarily know that the two parts of the book lined up particularly well with each other. But I also didn’t care.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Yeah, their commonality is they both have bunnies? I don’t know.
GIN JENNY: And SEALs.
WHISKEY JENNY: Bunnies and SEALs. [LAUGHTER] Sorry, one more thing. We didn’t talk about when they all walk into the Ladybug Lounge. I really appreciate that, too.
GIN JENNY: I don’t remember it, so refresh my memory.
WHISKEY JENNY: So at the end of Hell Week—[LAUGHTER] apparently. I don’t know if this is real, but I wish with all my heart for it to be real. All the SEALs hang out at this one bar, Ladybug Lounge. [LAUGHTER]
You can have friends and family in town during Hell Week, and if you make it through that then you can celebrate with them a bit. And they can come watch sometimes, but they can be in town and you just know that they’re in town supporting you. And then you get to see them at Ladybug Lounge if you survive.
And so it’s a big celebratory night already. But when Boat Squad John shows up to the Ladybug Lounge, Izzy, one of the Navy SEAL characters, gets up on a table and announces to the room, Boat Squad John, and the room erupted in cheers. [LAUGHTER]
I just really like that they’re basically famous in this world. And that they’re Boat Squad John. They have done even more legendary things. So it’s really great. Maybe I’ll make an edit of this book that’s just the Boat Squad John parts.
[LAUGHTER]So I think we talked about this before, but I’m really hoping this is a setup, and that Boat Squad John are the new main characters of her romance novels. And then now we go through all the members of Boat Squad John and have them fall in love.
GIN JENNY: Yeah. Cosign. I want that, too.
WHISKEY JENNY: Come on, universe.
GIN JENNY: Well, great, great Forcening. I think across the board a really strong Forcening.
WHISKEY JENNY: Absolutely. Yeah, very successful this year.
GIN JENNY: OK, so for next time we are reading Washington Black, by Esi Edugyan. We read her previous book, Half Blood Blues, on this podcast, and we liked it a lot, as I recall. And Washington Black is even more up my alley, for sure.
It is about a young slave called Washington Black on a plantation in Barbados. And his owner’s brother takes him on as a kind of manservant. And the brother is an abolitionist—although, if he is an abolitionist, he should be doing some abolition instead of what he is doing, which is trying to build an airship. And Washington Black and the brother have to go on the run together. So it sounds kind of road trippy and interesting and strange. It was on our autumn anticipated books list. And I think we’re both very excited to read it.
And that is, again, Washington Black by Esi Edugyan.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. That’s currently one of the overdue books that I have out from the library. [LAUGHTER]
So are you going to tell us now about exciting holiday programming we have upcoming?
GIN JENNY: Yes. So we have two special holiday programming items to discuss. First of all, we are bringing back our holiday gift guide, where you can write in and tell us about the people you’re trying to buy presents for and we will give you book recommendations for them.
WHISKEY JENNY: Hooray!
GIN JENNY: So you can go to the website, you can go to ReadingTheEnd.com/HolidayGiftGuide. Again, that’s ReadingTheEnd.com/HolidayGiftGuide, and you can fill out a brief form just telling us about your person.
WHISKEY JENNY: Or persons. You can do more than one.
GIN JENNY: Yes, absolutely, you can do more than one. And then our December 12th podcast, we will give you suggestions of what books you can buy your people. And the deadline to get us your submissions is December 7th, which is a Friday. So get them in as soon as possible, and we will give you suggestions. Yay!
WHISKEY JENNY: Hooray! I always really love doing this podcast.
GIN JENNY: Oh my gosh, I love doing this too. And we’re also going to have our little holiday gift guides where each of us suggest some presents in general.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s present time!
GIN JENNY: I love presents.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yay.
GIN JENNY: And then also we are going to have a—our bonus episode for this month is going to be us watching The Princess Switch on Netflix, which is a Christmas movie starring Vanessa Hudgens, where she is a baker, but she goes to a baking competition in a fictional country called Belgravia or something?
WHISKEY JENNY: Who knows.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: And while she’s there she meets someone who’s engaged to the prince of Belgravia or whatever. And the woman unexpectedly looks exactly like her, who cares why? And they switch places.
WHISKEY JENNY: Yup.
[LAUGHTER]GIN JENNY: And so yeah, that’s the premise. It sounds silly and fun, and I’m very excited to watch it and discuss it with you.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m excited, too. New York Magazine did a very helpful rundown of all the upcoming holiday movies, which was linked to us by Friend of the Podcast Alexis. Great many thanks for that link. But I think of all of those on that list, I was the most excited for The Princess Switch.
GIN JENNY: It’s got baking.
WHISKEY JENNY: It’s got baking. It’s got a swap. I think I like a swap, it turns out.
GIN JENNY: Me too. Oh, me too, for sure. And I like Vanessa Hudgens. She’s cute.
WHISKEY JENNY: She’s real charming.
GIN JENNY: I like how her mouth makes a smile—
WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: —even when she’s not smiling.
WHISKEY JENNY: Is it different from how other mouths smile?
GIN JENNY: Yeah. She just looks more smiley than most people. Yes.
WHISKEY JENNY: Well, great. [LAUGHTER]
GIN JENNY: I love how Whiskey Jenny is like, OK.
WHISKEY JENNY: I’m excited that Netflix is continuing to make its own holiday movies, its own princess holiday movies.
GIN JENNY: Its own rom coms, also.
WHISKEY JENNY: Its own rom coms. I’m just excited that Netflix is listening to us people.
GIN JENNY: Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]OK, well this has been the Reading the End bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys. You can visit the blog at readingtheend.com. Once again, if you want to get book recommendations for people you’re buying presents for, it’s ReadingTheEnd.co m/HolidayGiftGuide. You can follow me on Twitter @readingtheend. We are both on Goodreads as Whiskey Jenny and Gin Jenny. And you can email us at readingtheend@gmail.com.
If you like what we do, you can also become a podcast patron at patreon.com/readingtheend. And if you’re listening to us on iTunes, we would love it if you left us a review.
Until next time, a quote from The Two Towers, by J.R.R. Tolkien. “There are locked doors and closed windows in your mind, and dark rooms behind them,” said Faramir. “But in this I judge that you speak the truth.”
[GLASSES CLINK]