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PODCAST, Ep. 124 – Fall Book Preview and Eric Gansworth’s Give Me Some Truth

Break out the red wine and, unrelatedly, the pumpkin spice everythings! It’s autumn in the sense that both of us Jennies have now experienced weather that is cooler than 80 degrees, and we are celebrating! We’re kicking off our Three Musketeers readalong in this podcast (chapters 1-7), updating you on the results of our summer book preview, and previewing some books we can’t wait to read in the fall season. Then we wrap up with a review of Eric Gansworth’s unexpectedly sad YA novel Give Me Some Truth. You can listen to the podcast in the embedded player below, or download it directly to take with you on the go!

Episode 124

Content warnings for the review portion of Give Me Some Truth: We talk about an adult having a relationship with a fifteen-year-old. They don’t end up having sex, but we Jennies were both seriously troubled by it. We also talk some about alcoholism and alcohol abuse.

Here are the time signatures if you want to skip around.

1:18 – What we’re reading
6:08 – What we’re playing
11:04 – The Three Musketeers readalong (Chapters 1-7)
24:38 – Update on summer book preview
26:26 – Fall book preview
34:33 – Give Me Some Truth, Eric Gansworth
44:37 – What we’re reading next time!

What we talked about:

I Believe in a Thing Called Love, Maurene Goo
Gideon the Ninth, Tamsyn Muir
The Right Swipe, Alisha Rai
Fumbled, Alexa Martin
Intercepted, Alexa Martin
Parcheesi
bouldering
Untitled Goose Game
trailer for the Untitled Goose Game
interview with the Untitled Goose Game geniuses
The Three Musketeers, Alexandre Dumas pere
The MVP Machine, Ben Lindbergh and Travis Sawchik
The Rest of the Story, Sarah Dessen
In West Mills, De’Shawn Charles Winslow
Hot Comb, Ebony Flowers
Evie Drake Starts Over, Linda Holmes
There’s Something about Sweetie, Sandhya Menon
Magic for Liars, Sarah Gailey (podcast about it!)
In West Mills, De’Shawn Charles Winslow
Null Set, SL Huang
The Right Swipe, Alisha Rai
When the Plums Are Ripe, Patrice Nganang

Whiskey Jenny’s Fall 2019 Picks

Permanent Record, Mary HK Choi
No Judgments, Meg Cabot (except Gin Jenny kills her buzz about it)
Royal Holiday, Jasmine Guillory
The Starless Sea, Erin Morgenstern

Gin Jenny’s Fall 2019 Picks

Chilling Effect, Valerie Valdes
Out of Darkness, Shining Light, Petina Gappah
The Twisted Ones, T. Kingfisher
Light It Up, Kekla Magoon

Castle Hangnail, Ursula Vernon
The Night Circus, Erin Morgenstern
The Rock and the River, Kekla Magoon
How It Went Down, Kekla Magoon
Give Me Some Truth, Eric Gansworth
An Indigenous People’s History of the United States, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
Custer Died for Your Sins, Vine Deloria Jr

Get at me on Twitter, email the podcast, and friend me (Gin Jenny) and Whiskey Jenny on Goodreads. If you like what we do, support us on Patreon. Or if you wish, you can find us on iTunes (and if you enjoy the podcast, give us a good rating! We appreciate it very very much).

Credits
Producer: Captain Hammer
Photo credit: The Illustrious Annalee
Theme song by: Jessie Barbour
Transcripts by: Sharon of Library Hungry

Transcript

[THEME SONG] You don’t judge a book by its cover. Page one’s not a much better view. And shortly you’re gonna discover the middle won’t mollify you. So whether whiskey’s your go-to or you’re like my gin-drinking friend, no matter what you are imbibing, you’ll be better off in the end reading the end.

GIN JENNY: Welcome back to the Reading the End bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys. I’m Gin Jenny.

WHISKEY JENNY: And I am Whiskey Jenny.

GIN JENNY: And we are here again to talk about books and literary happenings. On today’s podcast, we are going to commence our readalong of The Three Musketeers. We’re going to do our fall book preview, which is always so much fun. And we will review Eric Gansworth’s not as chill and sweet YA novel as I was expecting, [LAUGHTER] Give Me Some Truth.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, chill and sweet are not words that I would use to describe this book.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, what I took away from book descriptions about it was not representative of the contents of the book. Whiskey Jenny, what are you reading?

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh I just finished I Believe in a Thing Called Love, by Maureen Goo.

GIN JENNY: Aw, how is it? I have that checked out right now.

WHISKEY JENNY: It was—good. I liked it. No, I liked it. It was just like—it felt a lot more lying-ish than I was expecting.

GIN JENNY: Oh, OK. Is that the food truck one?

WHISKEY JENNY: No, it’s not the food truck one. It’s the K-drama one.

GIN JENNY: Right.

WHISKEY JENNY: And our main girl decides to follow the steps in a K-drama to get this boy to like her.

GIN JENNY: Right. No, I already read that one. I have a different—I think I have the food truck one checked out.

WHISKEY JENNY: OK, OK. And yeah, it just felt a lot more like, oh, this feels—

GIN JENNY: Deceitful?

WHISKEY JENNY: Deceitful, and my stomach hurts. I was like, oh, this will be like a fun little YA romance. And also I didn’t really like the boy that much. And I think that liking the love interest is quite key for me enjoying a romance. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Oh my gosh, absolutely.

WHISKEY JENNY: I was like, I don’t really care about this Luca dude, so. [LAUGHTER] It made me want to read more by the author for sure. I really liked the voice and the jokes and things. But I think the concept was not for me.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, that makes total sense. I believe this one is her first novel. So I enjoyed it enough that I was like, oh yeah, I want to see how she develops as an author. So I’m optimistic about the food truck one.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I mean, I love a food truck. And I love a food industry romance in general.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, oh my God, yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: What are you reading?

GIN JENNY: I am reading basically the opposite of a food industry romance. I’m reading this book called Gideon the Ninth, by Tamsyn Muir, which I bought as a special treat for myself after having a rough day at work. And I don’t usually buy books sight unseen, but I’ve heard really good things about this one, and it has black-tipped pages, which is pretty cool.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.

GIN JENNY: I’m enjoying it a lot. It’s about a soldier called Gideon. She is an indentured servant on one of nine necromancy houses on her—I’m not sure if it’s on her planet or in the system? But definitely necromancy and space are involved. And the lady of the house who is her archenemy, Harrow, tells her she’ll set her free and let her go do what she wants if she does this one last job. And the job is basically she and Harrow have to go to this palace, and I think they have to fight or otherwise somehow defeat the heads of the other necromancy houses. And so far it’s been that there’s puzzles that they have to solve in the house.

WHISKEY JENNY: Ooh.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, but I think it’s going to get to the point where they actually have to fight the other ones.

WHISKEY JENNY: Are they doing necromancy also?

GIN JENNY: So yes, they are. They do a lot of necromancy. One of the things in the book is that they reanimate skeletons to be their servants, and depending on how good you are at necromancy, that determines how high quality your servants are.

WHISKEY JENNY: Your servants are. Sure, sure. Servants to make dinner and stuff?

GIN JENNY: Yeah, and to serve you, yes. Mm-hmm.

WHISKEY JENNY: Interesting. OK.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, it’s really weird. And it’s funny, because all that I’ve said makes it sound grim and dark, and it is kind of. But also Gideon is like—I read a review that called her a sweetly basic kid, and that’s pretty true.

WHISKEY JENNY: Aw.

GIN JENNY: She’s confronting this one horrifying task with the lady of her house, with Harrow. And there’s this creature, and it has all these scary things, and it kept keeps pulverizing all the skeletons that Harrow sends in to fight with it. And Gideon’s like, its arms kind of look like swords, so I want to fight it. [LAUGHTER] So she’s really sweet. She’s good at fighting. Bless her heart. Bless her heart.

WHISKEY JENNY: I hope she—boy, Gideon.

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah. And also, I believe that she and Harrow want to bang and eventually will.

WHISKEY JENNY: Great.

GIN JENNY: Tl;dr, lesbian necromancers in space. I’m really into it.

WHISKEY JENNY: Are the other heads of houses, are they also ladies? Is this a lady-fronted necromancing society, or is Harrow unusual in this?

GIN JENNY: Neither of those. It’s a variety of genders.

I’m also finally reading The Right Swipe by Alisha Rai, which I’m almost done with, and it’s just been great. Oh my gosh, I really like Alisha Rai. This is a romance novel about a woman who’s created a feminist dating app, and she has to for professional reasons work with this retired football player who ghosted her after a one night stand, but for a sympathetic reason. Oh man, it’s been great. It’s the second football-related romance that I read recently that dealt with CTE, and that’s been great. It’s funny and fun, but also there’s emotions. I got pretty teary reading it earlier.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, that sounds lovely.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: What was the other football romance? Was it good?

GIN JENNY: Yes, it was good. It’s actually a series by Alexa Martin, who herself was a football girlfriend for a while. Her husband, I think, was on the Baltimore Ravens. Yeah, so she’s drawing on that. And the two books that are out now are called Fumbled and Intercepted, and I enjoyed both of them a lot.

WHISKEY JENNY: Nice.

GIN JENNY: So this week, our something else-ing is what we’re playing, because I have a really exciting one. So Whiskey Jenny, do you want to tell the people what you’re playing?

WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. Well I have two answers.

GIN JENNY: Oh boy.

WHISKEY JENNY: We played a classic old school board game, Parcheesi, at a work board game night the other time, which was really fun. Sometimes we play the hot new games, and sometimes we play super old school stuff. And Parcheesi was surprisingly fun.

GIN JENNY: Oh. I don’t remember really what Parcheesi is. Can you just briefly refresh my memory?

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, so it’s a board game, and you’re trying to get all your dudes around the circle and into your home base in the middle.

GIN JENNY: Oh, right.

WHISKEY JENNY: But if you land on a square that someone else is on, you send them back to the beginning. So there’s a lot of jockeying for position like that. And if you have two of your people, it’s a blockade and nobody can get around it. And there’s also various safe spots throughout the you’re trying to get to. And to start you have to roll some combination of fives, so it’s hard to get out of home base, as well.

Yeah, it was fun. Also, the board is not that big, but the gameplay took way longer than I was expected, because you keep getting sent back. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Sure.

WHISKEY JENNY: But yeah, that was fun. Also I think my grandparents had this game when I was growing up. And they had quite thick Southern accents, so I always said it was called Pacheesi. It’s not. It’s Parcheesi. [LAUGHTER] So that’s a fun twist.

So then also, this felt a lot like playing. I went bouldering for the first time last night.

GIN JENNY: What is that? Gosh, you are so great. You always do new things and stuff. It’s very admirable.

WHISKEY JENNY: Boy. I mean, it was terrifying. Thank you.

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: It sounds terrifying.

WHISKEY JENNY: Podcast theme song composer Jessie is an expert at bouldering and brought me. And we went to this place that has outdoor bouldering under the Manhattan Bridge.

GIN JENNY: What is—?

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s like rock climbing, with the little colored handholds and stuff. But there’s no rope attaching you, So you’re just—

GIN JENNY: Oh my God!

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s a short wall, and you just clamber up and then clamber down.

GIN JENNY: Cool.

WHISKEY JENNY: So I didn’t even do the—I did one green one, which was super, super easy, and the rest I did were purple, which were super, super, super, super easy, like the warm-ups for everyone else. I was like, I’m just going to stick to the nice little purple ones this time, if that’s OK. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah, and just see how it goes. For sure.

WHISKEY JENNY: But it was really fun watching other people do it, because it’s a lot of problem solving, and staring at it and figuring out your path, and being like, maybe try it this way. Nope, that doesn’t work. Maybe try it this way.

GIN JENNY: Oh, that does sound fun, actually.

WHISKEY JENNY: Techniques and stuff. And it’s really fun to watch Jessie do it, because she’s very graceful and balletic.

GIN JENNY: Well, that’s really cool. I have never heard of that before.

WHISKEY JENNY: Bouldering.

GIN JENNY: Bouldering!

WHISKEY JENNY: And now I’m sore.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, well, I can imagine, yeah. [LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: Even doing that one green one really took it out of me. [LAUGHTER] What are you playing? Do I know the answer?

GIN JENNY: Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, you know the answer. [LAUGHTER] I’m playing Untitled Goose Game. In case you have not heard of this game, it’s a video game where—I never play video games, by the way, so this is unusual for me. Not only did I talk my brother-in-law into buying it, because he has the equipment to buy stuff, I then played it myself. So this is very new for me.

It’s a video game where you play a goose in a little village. And the game is you wander around doing minor mischief and inconveniencing people in non-permanent ways.

WHISKEY JENNY: Are you a good goose or a bad goose?

GIN JENNY: [LAUGHTER] You’re definitely a bad goose.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah!

GIN JENNY: The only things the goose can do are walk or run around, pick things up, flap its wings, and honk. And those are your only powers. And for each section of the game—first you have to finish the gardener section, and then you have to do the little town square section, and so on.

WHISKEY JENNY: And you have a little list, right?

GIN JENNY: Yeah, and then for each section of the game, they give you a little to-do list of mischief tasks that are so cute. It’s like, make the gardener hammer his thumb. Break the dartboard in the pub. It’s so much fun. It’s really fun.

I played it with my little Godson, who is truly too much of a good citizen to play this game. We’ve taught him too many good values by accident. And it’s actually quite difficult to convince him to do the naughty goose things. He’ll do the OK-ish things where he takes food to make a picnic, but then he doesn’t want to put the rake in the lake, or knock the kid over.

WHISKEY JENNY: That’s very nice.

GIN JENNY: It was so much fun to play. I was just giggling the whole time. I haven’t even played the full run of it and I’m already like, where’s my sequel?

WHISKEY JENNY: I’ve heard that there’s a dedicated honk button. How good is the dedicated honk button?

GIN JENNY: Oh my gosh, so good. Sometimes, my Godson kept getting annoyed at me because I would honk for no reason. He was like, you not need to honk! [LAUGHTER] I know.

WHISKEY JENNY: This dedicated honk button, though! It’s right there. That’s what it’s for.

GIN JENNY: I have to say, I really face challenges remembering what buttons do what, again, because I’m new to video games. So I kept messing things up. But I think I did overall pretty OK.

WHISKEY JENNY: Well, it sounds delightful. The trailer is amazing, if you have not heard of it, listeners.

GIN JENNY: And I’ll link that in the show notes, because it’s wonderful. And I’ll also link, there was an interview on Vulture with the creators of the Goose Game. Yeah, and it was really interesting. And basically at the end they were like, yeah, we just thought it would be funny to make a game about a goose. [LAUGHTER] And it is.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. Nailed it.

GIN JENNY: All right, do you want to get into The Three Musketeers?

WHISKEY JENNY: I absolutely do.

GIN JENNY: Oh my God, I’m so excited.

WHISKEY JENNY: I’m so excited!

GIN JENNY: So we read the first seven chapters of The Three Musketeers for this readalong. And off to a great start in my opinion. What do you think?

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I mean, I was surprised at how much ground we covered.

GIN JENNY: Me, too. There was a lot of stuff. It starts with d’Artagnan setting out from his home. You know, he wants to go to the city and be a musketeer.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, where is he from? I don’t think he mentions that!

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: It’s funny. Yeah, he mentions that a lot.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s a joke. He does mention it a lot. [LAUGHTER] It’s jokes.

GIN JENNY: So even before he gets to the city—Whiskey Jenny, I don’t want to get entangled in another horse controversy with you.

WHISKEY JENNY: Boy.

GIN JENNY: I think we’ll be on the same page about this one.

WHISKEY JENNY: He should not have sold the poor horse.

GIN JENNY: His father gives him—admittedly, it’s a crappy horse. But the father gives him this horse and is like—

WHISKEY JENNY: All right. [LAUGHTER] Fine. You go on, and then I’ll go.

GIN JENNY: Well, the book seems to think it’s a crappy horse, I guess. But the father gives him this horse, it’s a yellow horse, and is like, don’t sell this horse. He’s like, the horse will be with you until you die. And D’Artagnan quickly has a duel with someone over insulting the horse, and he almost dies in a duel. And then five seconds later, he sells the horse like it’s nothing!

WHISKEY JENNY: But I just want to say that I think the horse looks funny but has deep inner strength.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: And I think that’s why—I don’t think he’s a bad horse. It’s not a crappy horse. It’s not a crappy gift that his father gave him. It’s just he doesn’t look like a good horse, but I think he really is a good horse.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, no.

WHISKEY JENNY: I think D’Artagnan knows that, because when he receives the words he knows that the horse is worth like 20 pistoles, or something? [LAUGHTER] I don’t understand the unit of money here.

GIN JENNY: No, I totally agree with you. I think the horse is like the Millennium Falcon, where it looks like a piece of crap but actually it’s really good.

WHISKEY JENNY: That was the only reason I was arguing. And I also think that yes, people around immediately look at the horse and be like, what a silly horse. But it’s a great horse, and you shouldn’t have sold it.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, Han Solo would not sell the Millennium Falcon. Except he did gamble away the Millennium Falcon. But nevertheless, he wouldn’t sell the Millennium Falcon.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: I’m pretty sure? I don’t think he would, either.

GIN JENNY: Let me restate. Rey would not sell the Millennium Falcon.

WHISKEY JENNY: There you go. Exactly. And he did it so cavalierly, like he didn’t regret it at all.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, it was like it was nothing. I was also, speaking of covering a lot of ground—I did not remember that we met Milady this soon.

WHISKEY JENNY: Boy. Like, page two.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. The guy that he gets in a fight with about the horse is her bodyguard.

WHISKEY JENNY: Is that who he is? I couldn’t quite tell who he was. I know he was meeting with Milady and do an intrigue, but I did not know what his role was.

GIN JENNY: I guess, I don’t know. He was some person, I don’t know. You’re right.

WHISKEY JENNY: But yeah, he’s in the Milady household.

GIN JENNY: Yes, exactly.

WHISKEY JENNY: He’s affiliated with Milady. Yeah, so he sets out from Gascon. Gas-cone. Gas-conya. And gets into a fight on page two. I really appreciated how much he was spoiling for a fight. Because that was his father’s advice, was don’t take shit from anybody. And then this dude tried to make fun of his horse, and he was like, not on my watch. And then he almost dies.

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yup. Yup.

WHISKEY JENNY: And then, yeah, intrigue starts right away, too. Because he almost dies at the hotel. And, twist, the guy who’s making fun of the horse is part of Milady’s household. And they’re doing stuff with a box that can’t be good.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, they’re clearly doing crimes. We just don’t know too much about it yet. But then he does get to Paris and he meets Monsieur de Treville, which, I have to say, does not seem like the greatest head of an organization.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh really? Well, what do you think he should do differently?

GIN JENNY: Well, OK. You remember when we were watching Hard Knocks that one time and the coach was like, now, listen.

WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Don’t get into any fights, because you shouldn’t. But also, I don’t know how I feel about fights.

WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER] But also sometimes you have to, and don’t ever back down from one.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. It was basically like, but honor does demand that you get in fights sometimes, but don’t. But you have to sometimes. But don’t.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I do remember that. It was driving me crazy. Even still, I still don’t know if that man wanted them to get into fights or not. I still don’t know. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: I don’t, either. And the same with Treville. I don’t think he’s doing a good job of controlling the Musketeers in the streets of Paris.

WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. No, he’s definitely not. I think he is clearer, in that he does want them to get into fights. He definitely does.

GIN JENNY: Well, I don’t think that’s a good head of organization way to be, in my opinion.

WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. But I think his instructions are at least clear.

GIN JENNY: OK, that’s fair.

WHISKEY JENNY: Which is get into fights and win them.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. So Treville agrees to recommend d’Artagnan for a thing. But d’Artagnan is like, oh, I gotta go, because he thinks he sees someone who’s done him wrong, and he wants to chase after that guy.

WHISKEY JENNY: He thinks he sees the dude who almost killed him, right? And stole his letter of recommendation. It’s the horse dude.

GIN JENNY: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, you’re right.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s the horse insulter.

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah, so he takes off after him and is incautious in his running. He bashes into Athos, and then Porthos, and he schedules duels with both of them, because that’s who he is as a person, fundamentally.

WHISKEY JENNY: And Aramis eventually. Are we not there yet?

GIN JENNY: Yes, and then subsequently runs into Aramis and also schedules a duel for that. So he has three duels in one day.

WHISKEY JENNY: At noon, one, and two.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: So he did scheduled them appropriately, I think.

GIN JENNY: Oh, no, absolutely, for sure.

WHISKEY JENNY: So yeah, Athos gets mad at him for running into him because Athos is wounded and it hurt him when d’Artagnan ran into him. I like that bit. It’s not just because he did a dumb thing. It was that Athos was cranky because his shoulder just hurt because this guy just punched him in his sword wound or something. I don’t know.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, no, that’s totally fair. Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: And I also really like that Porthos gets mad when he gets run into because d’Artagnan sees that his shirt or something? Whatever that thing is. The front is gold, but he can’t afford it all gold, so the back is just plain leather. And he’s been wearing a cloak to cover this up. But d’Artagnan, when he runs into him, they get tangled up and d’Artagnan sees that the back is just leather, and he starts making fun of Porthos for this. And Porthos at first isn’t totally sure that he’s making fun of him, but he’s sure enough to be mad about it, but doesn’t get the references. [LAUGHTER] I love Porthos.

GIN JENNY: I like them all. Well, Aramis actually has in my opinion also quite a good reason, which is that d’Artagnan blows up his spot.

WHISKEY JENNY: Seriously. [LAUGHTER] D’Artagnan does not read the room.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, Aramis is trying to get d’Artagnan to shut up about something that would kind of expose the lady he’s been banging to opprobrium. And d’Artagnan’s like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think it’s fair enough by Aramis in that case.

WHISKEY JENNY: No, completely agree. Yeah, Aramis tried to tell him, like it’s not mine. Stop it, it’s not my handkerchief, nothing. [LAUGHTER] And d’Artagnan is like, what is this handkerchief here? But so then the duels are scheduled for noon, one, and two. And he shows up to fight Athos first, and then Porthos and Aramis show up as Athos’s second and third.

GIN JENNY: Twist!

WHISKEY JENNY: And they’re like, what are you doing here? What am I doing here? What are you doing here?

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: It’s great. They have a really nice chat about it, about the duel. And d’Artagnan is like, you know, Athos might kill me, so I might not get to fight you two guys, and if so, I’m really sorry, because I do prefer to pay my debts and stuff. And he also—I thought this was really sweet. He offers his special tiger balm or whatever to Athos for his wound.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I thought that was nice, too. And I liked how, they did have a really nice conversation that they’re all getting along great. And they’re like, boy, we really get along. It’s too bad we have to kill each other. [LAUGHTER] It’s just really too bad. [LAUGHTER] You know, them’s the rules.

GIN JENNY: But luckily, just as they’re about to get to dueling, the Cardinal’s men show up and they have a set to.

WHISKEY JENNY: Bum bum bum!

GIN JENNY: And d’Artagnan, who likes the Musketeers better, joins up to defend them. And so I think it really bonds them together.

WHISKEY JENNY: He joins up in such a good way, too! The Musketeers are like, uh oh, we have to fight these dudes, but we’re only three. And d’Artagnan is like, excuse me, four.

GIN JENNY: We are four.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: We are four!

GIN JENNY: I don’t get how this government functions, I have to say.

WHISKEY JENNY: Boy, me neither. [LAUGHTER] I do not understand anything that’s happening outside of the four Musketeers’ friendship. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: I know that I’m saying this in 2019 America. I guess no governments really function forever correctly. But it just seems imprudent for the two main armed forces to be constantly going out onto the moors or whatever and killing each other. [LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: It just seemed like such a weird way to solve your political differences.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. And what’s really crazy to me, not only do they not really get in trouble for this, but they get into another fight a little bit later, and the king is like, oh, I like your spirit. Have some money, kid.

WHISKEY JENNY: OK, so no, no, no. At first he’s mad. This is really confusing. Oh wait, I have one more thing to say about the duel first.

GIN JENNY: Oh yeah, yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s five against four, so I think Aramis is taking on two and everybody else gets one. And d’Artagnan takes care of his dude and then is looking—according to the rules of duels then you can help somebody else out. [LAUGHTER] So it’s like, great, there’s rules for this situation.

GIN JENNY: Help a pal.

WHISKEY JENNY: Great. And he’s looking around trying to figure out which one he should help. And Athos, who was previously wounded, it says is too proud to shout for help, but he could look, and gives him a look that’s like, dude, here, right now. Me! Pick me! But damn it, he could look. So he tells him with his eyes that he needs help. And then d’Artagnan’s like, cool, got it, and goes over and helps him.

GIN JENNY: See, they’re already a great team!

WHISKEY JENNY: And then I really liked the one do that they were fighting, Bicarat or whatever, is also really brave and will not give up until he is given a direct order by a superior. And then he’s like, OK, well, if it’s an order, and then breaks the sword across his knee and then starts whistling a pro-cardinal song. And all the musketeers are like, man, this dude’s pretty cool. [LAUGHTER] Again, too bad we’re enemies.

GIN JENNY: I just don’t understand the breaking the sword thing. That seems like a lot of expense.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, no, I don’t understand what anything costs in this world.

GIN JENNY: No, me neither. It’s all totally confusing. And I don’t understand, when the king does give d’Artagnan money, I don’t understand what that will buy him.

WHISKEY JENNY: Nope, me neither. So after the duel they go to play tennis. They’re best friends now and now they play tennis together. It’s just immediate. Like, great, we’re best friends. Now we play tennis.

GIN JENNY: Which is the sweetest pastime that they choose to do. I love it.

WHISKEY JENNY: But then d’Artagnan’s like, no I can’t actually. Because I might get hit in the face by the ball, and I don’t want to meet the king like that. Because the king is supposed to congratulate them for winning that fight. And I like that he’s worried about his face.

But then, yeah, then they get in another fight with the cardinal’s men. And this time the king gets mad at them for it, but then is cool with it again? It was very confusing.

GIN JENNY: I just really don’t think—like, poor regular Parisians. You know, whatever, the cardinal’s men probably deserve it, and the musketeers definitely deserve it. But I don’t really understand why the average Parisian citizen has to walk around their city like this, constantly in the middle of fights.

WHISKEY JENNY: At the drop of a hat. And then you have to pick sides or the other side’s going to get mad at you.

GIN JENNY: Seems terrible. I don’t like it at all.

WHISKEY JENNY: Very alarming. But yeah, then the king congratulates them, gives them 40 bucks. 4,000 bucks? Don’t know. [LAUGHTER] But he’s just like, hey, how much cash do I have on me? Here you go.

GIN JENNY: Why does he have any cash on him? I don’t carry cash and I’m not even a king.

WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t know. I think he has to ask someone else.

GIN JENNY: Oh, cool. That’s fair.

WHISKEY JENNY: Like he has to ask his cash man. I guess. I don’t know.

And then I like that now all the musketeers—I’m just going to call them all musketeers even though d’Artagnan isn’t officially one—they all go to work together now.

GIN JENNY: It’s really nice.

WHISKEY JENNY: Even though d’Artagnan’s work is different. So now his work has four people instead of one new person. It’s really cute. They just go to work together. It would be like if I every morning was like, hey, Gin Jenny, where are we going to work today? [LAUGHTER] It’s so cute.

GIN JENNY: And then there’s a whole section where they’re talking about the valets of each of the musketeers, which I admit I kind of skimmed.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, it’s a little like, these are people too, so it’s weird that you’re talking about beating them, so.

GIN JENNY: Each of the four men has a valet, and I was reading the end notes that went along with it. And in the end note it says the Aramis’s valet sucks the most because, quote, “the scheming Aramis is,” quote, “the least sympathetic of the musketeers.” And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not say anything we don’t mean.

WHISKEY JENNY: Whoa.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: My goodness.

GIN JENNY: I think it’s because in the sequels they’re kind of at odds with each other, which is why I never read the sequels. Maybe Aramis does bad stuff in the subsequent books, but I don’t choose to engage with that.

WHISKEY JENNY: I have read some of them, all of them, and it was all for dumb reasons, if I remember, that they were mad at each other. It wasn’t legit. It was like a rom com separation before they could come back together.

GIN JENNY: Well, based on what I have seen of them so far that seems super true. [LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: So can we just run through who everyone’s character is for a little bit? Because we don’t get a whole bunch of glimpses into everyone.

GIN JENNY: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

WHISKEY JENNY: Porthos is like—

GIN JENNY: The high-living—

WHISKEY JENNY: Like a dumb hothead, right?

GIN JENNY: Yes.

WHISKEY JENNY: OK. Dude likes to wear fancy clothes and have people think that he’s super rich.

GIN JENNY: Yes.

WHISKEY JENNY: OK. Aramis wants to be a priest?

GIN JENNY: Yeah. He’s the learned one slash ladies’ man. Aramis has a lot of facets.

WHISKEY JENNY: And Athos is like the noble one?

GIN JENNY: Yeah. He’s the noble one with the difficult past. That’s Athos.

WHISKEY JENNY: OK.

GIN JENNY: I think he’s like the moral center of the group. Such as there is one, it’s Athos. And I think they kind of look up to him, and they’re like, oh, this guy knows what life is like.

WHISKEY JENNY: He knows what’s up. He’s got histories.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, and he does. Which we’re going to find out I assume.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, those are some bold words, end notes.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I was really shocked and horrified.

WHISKEY JENNY: Least sympathetic. Huh. I mean—yeah.

GIN JENNY: I love Aramis. I love Aramis. I don’t know what to say.

WHISKEY JENNY: I love them all.

GIN JENNY: I do too, but I mean, I also love Aramis. Like, Aramis is not least in my affections.

WHISKEY JENNY: He might be least, but—

GIN JENNY: He might be most in my affections. I like him because he likes books.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, he likes books. And ladies.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I’m a simple woman. [LAUGHTER] It was a great opener and I’m just really excited to read more.

WHISKEY JENNY: Right? It really starts with a bang. I’m so excited, too. I’m glad that they’re friends now.

GIN JENNY: Oh my God, me too.

WHISKEY JENNY: Best tennis-playing friends now.

GIN JENNY: So for next time, listeners, if you’re reading along with us, we’re going to read chapters eight through twelve. So join us, won’t you?

Do you want to go first on summer book preview recap or should I?

WHISKEY JENNY: I’ll go first, because mine’s going to be pretty quick. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: OK. Summer book preview. Hit it.

WHISKEY JENNY: Summer book preview. I did not read any of my summer books, unfortunately.

GIN JENNY: So what were your ones that you did not read?

WHISKEY JENNY: So the ones I did not read were The MVP Machine, by Ben Lindbergh and Travis Sawchik, which I did start. It’s very interesting so far. I was explaining to my family last time I was home the concept of pitch tunneling, which is a fun concept to get and apply to other things. That’s where you want all your pitches to be the same for as long as possible, and then at the end do something crazy.

GIN JENNY: Oh, all right. Cool.

WHISKEY JENNY: So you fool them, yeah. So that was a fun concept. The Rest of the Story, by Sarah Dessen. And I was really looking forward to reading that one on a beach, and I just never made it to a beach.

GIN JENNY: Oh, boo.

WHISKEY JENNY: But I own it. In West Mills, by De’Shawn Charles Winslow, which just has such a pretty cover. I’m still very much looking forward to it. Hot Comb, by Ebony Flowers. And Evvy Drake Starts Over, by Linda Holmes, which I was also like, boy, this is such a perfect beach book, and I never made it to a beach. So I’m still looking forward to all of them. None of them have dimmed in the light of my eyes. So what is your recap?

GIN JENNY: So I read four of my five, which I’m really impressed with myself.

WHISKEY JENNY: Whoa! Check you out.

GIN JENNY: Well, but I just read two of them this week, so you know, I was gaming the stats. So I read There’s Something About Sweetie, by Sandhya Menon, which was a YA rom com. Very delightful. I thought this one felt a little more didactic than her previous ones, but it’s being didactic about body positivity, so I’m not mad at the lesson being taught. Magic for Liars, by Sarah Gailey, which we read for podcast. Null Set, by S.L. Huang, which was the sequel to Zero Sum Game, and I really liked it, and I’m excited for a third one. And The Right Swipe, by Aisha Rai, which I am almost done with. The one that I didn’t read was When the Plums Are Ripe, by Patrice Nganang, because it has been very consistently missing from the library. I think my branch lost their copy, because it’s not there.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no.

GIN JENNY: What’s your first book that you’re excited about for fall, which in this case covers September to December?

WHISKEY JENNY: Well, I will say as to my process—

GIN JENNY: Oh, yes!

WHISKEY JENNY: So normally, first I check my Goodreads To Read list and see which ones are coming out in those months. And then I scour the internet for other ones, and read The Millions book preview and things like that.

GIN JENNY: Oh, yes.

WHISKEY JENNY: Which is a great resource but bad for my bank account. But this time I already had four To Reads on my list that I am excited about. So I was like, well, great. I’m just going with this Goodreads list. So I did not scour the Millions book preview. These are just the four that I already wanted to read. So I don’t know what that says. I don’t know if that’s better or worse, but we’ll see how it goes.

GIN JENNY: Cool.

WHISKEY JENNY: So the first one is Permanent Record, by Mary H.K. Choi.

GIN JENNY: Oh, I’m surprised, because Ashley did not like the other one so much.

WHISKEY JENNY: I know. But this one is like, famous person/regular person.

GIN JENNY: [GASP] Ooh, yeah. Ooh, that’s the good stuff.

WHISKEY JENNY: I just really like that. So I’m giving it a try.

GIN JENNY: I think Maureen Goo might have a book out now that’s like that. There might be like a K-drama star/regular person romance.

WHISKEY JENNY: Really?

GIN JENNY: I think so. I don’t think I’m making that up.

WHISKEY JENNY: Well, this is very exciting news, as well. But that’s coming out in September, which has passed. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: So it came out in September.

WHISKEY JENNY: It came out in September from Simon and Schuster.

GIN JENNY: My first one is Chilling Effect, by Valerie Valdes, which came out also in September from Harper Voyager. It sounds like it’s a space opera kind of along lines of Firefly. So it’s a ragtag group of misfits who do odd jobs in space. And the captain, Eva, her sister is kidnapped by an ominous syndicate, so she has to either raise the ransom money or get her sister back. It’s a debut novel, and it sounds like it’ll be really fun, and maybe have some heisty elements, but definitely have team slash found family elements, too. You know, I love a sister story, so it just sounds right up my alley in many ways.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, great. My next one is No Judgments, by Meg Cabot, which also came out in September by William Morrow. And I really like Meg Cabot’s adult romances. She is the writer also of The Princess Diaries, so maybe more famous for those. And this one is on a little island outside of Florida, and there’s a storm coming, and she’s got to save all the animals or something?

GIN JENNY: Oh! Oh, I know something bad about this book.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no! What’s the bad thing?

GIN JENNY: It uses prison labor at the end as recovery efforts. And the main character is like, wow, it’s so great they’re using prison labor for this.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, Jesus. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: It is just slavery, guys. It’s just slavery. You shouldn’t be happy about that. It’s straight-up slavery.

WHISKEY JENNY: Did not see that coming.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, so just be prepared.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no. Well, I was hoping it would be a nice fluffy romance where they’re saving animals, but maybe not.

GIN JENNY: Well, it’s toward the end, so maybe you can skip it. Oh my God, Meg Cabot, learn a lesson, though.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, very disappointing.

GIN JENNY: I’m sorry.

WHISKEY JENNY: No, it’s true.

GIN JENNY: I thought you’d want to know.

WHISKEY JENNY: I would want to know, it’s true. What’s your next one?

GIN JENNY: Next up for me is Out of Darkness, Shining Light by Petina Gappah, which came out with Scribner in September. I read this author’s first book, The Book of Memory, and I really liked it. She’s a Zimbabwean author, and this is her second book. And it’s the story of the African people who brought David Livingstone’s body to Zanzibar. Like, Dr. Livingston, I presume. That guy.

WHISKEY JENNY: [LAUGHTER] Oh, that guy.

GIN JENNY: That guy. And I think it supposed to be a challenge to the way that colonizers stories have historically been prized over the stories of the colonized. And it sounds really, really good. I’m super excited to read it. Like I said, I really liked The Book of Memory. I kept thinking it was going to be—it was a kinder book than I expected, I guess I would say. Because a lot of literary fiction can be kind of like, we’re all just sacks of meat stumbling towards the grave.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: Sure. Sure, yeah.

GIN JENNY: And this book wasn’t. And I was just surprised by how lovely and kind it was.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, that sounds good.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: So my next one is Royal Holiday, by Jasmine Guillory, which came out in October by Berkeley. I have read The Wedding Date by her, which I loved. This one, an American goes to England for work/vacation to style a royal family member, and then I believe has a romance with the private secretary of one of the royals. And I’m really excited for this royal romance.

GIN JENNY: Cool. Well, that sounds really fun. You didn’t read her second book, did you?

WHISKEY JENNY: No. All of them are on my list, but I have only read The Wedding Date so far. I’ve never read The Proposal, which is the baseball one I think. And then I don’t remember what the third one is called. But no, I’ve only read The Wedding Date thus far.

GIN JENNY: I was just curious how—because I had some notes on The Wedding Date, so I was kind of curious about how her writing, how her books have progressed since then.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, totally. I was going to say, I think The Wedding Date had some first romance hiccups, I would agree for sure. But there was a lot I liked about it, so I’m excited for this new concept.

GIN JENNY: Cool. My next one is The Twisted Ones by T. Kingfisher, coming from Saga Press in October. T. Kingfisher also writes as Ursula Vernon, who wrote Castle Hangnail, which was a middle grade book I could not shut up about last year. But this one’s for adults, and it’s about a girl who, her grandmother dies and I think she inherits her grandmother’s house. But regardless, she has to go to her grandmother’s house in the forest, I think, and she has to go clean out the house. And it turns out it is haun-ted! Haunted. So it sounds like just so much fun. I love a haunted house story.

The one thing that’s giving me pause about this, I’ve been excited for a while, and I just read a thing that was like, oh, it’s drawing from this 1900s really famous horror story. And it makes a lot more sense if you’ve read that first. So I went to read it and I was like, my eyes are going to fall all the way out of my head from boredom. It’s not even that long, and I got a third of the way through it and I was like, oh my God.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh no!

GIN JENNY: So hopefully it’ll still be good without having read that.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’ll be a fun take on that, right?

GIN JENNY: Yeah, that’s what I think. I mean, this author is clearly very fun. I’ve read two of her books, they’re so much fun. So I’m not worried it’s going to be boring. I’m just worried there’s stuff about it that I’m not going to get. But surely she wrote it intending it for an audience of people who have not—

WHISKEY JENNY: Who have not read it, yeah.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. I’m optimistic.

WHISKEY JENNY: Well, my last one is The Starless Sea, by Erin Morgenstern, coming out in November. Erin Morgenstern wrote The Night Circus, which I adored, and has not really written any books since. So this is a very exciting follow up for me personally. I can’t really tell what it’s about. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Me neither. Not at all.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: So the description starts out being like, this dude finds a mysterious book, and then finds his own story in it. And then there’s a secret world, and something something?

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah, that’s what I’ve taken from it, too.

WHISKEY JENNY: So I’m really confused, but I really liked The Night Circus, so I’m excited. I’m a little concerned, because I think sometimes when books talk about the magic of books, it gets a little twee. So I’m a little, like, my twee radar is up.

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I hear you.

WHISKEY JENNY: But we’ll see how it goes.

GIN JENNY: That’s a very real problem. My friend Alice one time said that oftentimes books like that, you read them and they’re intended to make you go, aren’t book people the best people? Yes they are! Five stars!

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: And I really did love Night Circus, so I’m hoping it’s more like Night Circus.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I think it will be. I think we have many reasons for optimism.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah.

GIN JENNY: OK, my last one is Light It Up by Kekla Magoon which is coming out from Holt in October. I am baffled and furious that Kekla Magoon is not super famous. I cannot fathom why she is not crazy famous. She writes YA and middle grade books. They are so good. They’re very emotionally resonant, and beautiful, and complex, but they’re also really compelling reads, like you really want to keep reading them. She wrote The Rock and the River, which wrecked me, and How It Went Down, which wrecked me even worser. And her books are so good. They’re so good. I do not get it. I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

Light It Up is about a Black teenage girl who get shot by the police and the aftermath of that. And I just always feel like every new book by Kekla Magoon is going to be her breakout one where she becomes a household name. And I really hope it’s this one, because I love her, and I want everyone to have read all her books, because she’s amazing.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. What a plug.

GIN JENNY: The end. [LAUGHTER] So that’s Light It Up by Kekla Magoon. But anything by Kekla Magoon is great.

Do you want get into Give Me Some Truth?

WHISKEY JENNY: Let’s do it.

GIN JENNY: This podcast we read Give Me Some Truth, by Eric Gansworth. I told Whiskey Jenny that this was about a Native kid trying to get a band together. That is a much more sunny description of what the book is, and also is not really representative of its contents. But it’s about—it’s alternating perspectives, which I love, between this kid Carson and a girl named Magpie, who’s come back to live on the reservation after several years in the city. Gosh, it was a lot sadder than I was expecting. Whiskey Jenny, what did you think of it?

WHISKEY JENNY: Boy, so sad and dark. I thought it was—good? It was very difficult to read. And I—there’s a pretty key relationship between our main girl, Maggie, who’s 15, and a dude in his 30s.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: It happens for so long, and I didn’t love how it ended. And it was such a big part of it that that kind of colored it for me.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I think that’s good to mention up front anyway. I guess this is a spoiler, but I would not have been able to keep reading the book if I had not known it. So they don’t end up having sex. I kept being worried he was going to assault her and he doesn’t, but they also don’t have sex at all. So yay.

WHISKEY JENNY: I’m very thankful that you warned me that, as well. Because even with you had told me that, it still just feels extremely predatory, and it’s just extremely anxiety-ridden the whole time reading about every time they’re together. But also, there’s not a satisfying like—I don’t know. At the end she’s sort of like, maybe someday. And I was like, well, I just really want to tell this 30-year-old preying on this 15-year-old to fuck off. And I feel like the book to not tell him to fuck off.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, and also he’s, you know, kind of racist.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, there’s a lot of other things wrong with him.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. There’s a lot of other things wrong with him completely separate from the fact that he should not be getting involved with a child. No, so I agree. I think that also I thought the book was going to be structured around the battle of the bands. And it kind of isn’t, at all really. The main organizing principle is actually more about the kids growing into their activism. Which was really great, and I really, really liked that stuff. But I agree. I think that the gross predatory plot line, which I really—that kind of thing really, really, really squicks me out. So yeah, that made it harder to read.

WHISKEY JENNY: I agree around the structure though, particularly, I guess, having read the description, it definitely surprised me in where it went.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, it’s not around the battle of the bands. It’s not this big—it sort of is still this big, all-important thing at the end, but not in the way that you think, and it’s not actually THE important thing at the end. Yeah, I did enjoy that aspect of it.

GIN JENNY: It really gets into systemic oppression and how it recreates itself and da da da. And a lot of the plot hinges on Native identity and Native history and why those things are important. So at the start of the book, Carson’s brother gets shot at this crappy restaurant called Custard’s Last Stand. And as the book goes on, you realize he wasn’t just doing a robbery to do a robbery. He was reacting against this restaurant owner’s racism. And Carson just really starts to think about how oppression functions in his world and looks for ways to push back on it. And that I thought was really, really lovely.

WHISKEY JENNY: Totally, yeah. So it’s Carson and Magpie are the two narrators. As you said, it’s alternate perspectives. And I do like that, but in this case, I thought everyone else around them also had such interesting stories to tell that I—

GIN JENNY: Yes, I wanted a Lewis section!

WHISKEY JENNY: I wanted for sure a Lewis section. I wanted Maggie’s older sister, Marie. I wanted Carson’s older brother, Derek. I wanted so many more perspectives on this story, too, because I thought everyone had such an interesting story to tell here. So I was a little bummed in this case that we only got Carson and Magpie.

GIN JENNY: What I think made me want that even more is that this book is very centered around community. So there were a lot of different characters around, and obviously they all had stories. And so yeah, I agree, it really made me want to know more about them. Especially Lewis. I really wanted to know more about Lewis. Like, bless his heart. I want the best for him.

WHISKEY JENNY: So much. I just want the best for him. I still really haven’t forgiven Carson for being so mean to him.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, so Lewis is Carson’s friend. And he has been in the past viciously bullied in school, and Carson just let it happen and was like, whatever.

WHISKEY JENNY: And now also is not a good friend to him. He’s just really manipulative and is always—

GIN JENNY: Yeah, he’s not straight with him.

WHISKEY JENNY: Teasing him and—yeah.

GIN JENNY: Yeah, I was mad at Carson, too. Although, I mean, he grows up a lot in the course of the book.

WHISKEY JENNY: For sure.

GIN JENNY: I don’t know, I would definitely—even as hard as this book was to read in parts, I would definitely read a sequel about Lewis.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh my God, yes. Yes. I agree, that would be the number one next story that I want to hear, or the next perspective that I would want in this book. And I also really appreciated that Carson in his section is very, like, swaggering, and I’m the coolest, and I’m in charge here. And Magpie, in her sections, I think she does a really good job of breaking that down and seeing through him and being like, oh, you’re just a scared kid like all of us. So I did appreciate that we do get this other picture of Carson from her. But yeah, yeah. I still haven’t forgiven him for Lewis. [COUGH] Sorry. I think my allergies are acting up.

GIN JENNY: Aw.

WHISKEY JENNY: Did you think that Carson and Magpie’s narrative voices were different enough?

GIN JENNY: Not super.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. In the first Carson section he uses significant capitals a lot, which I thought was really interesting and really in keeping with his rock star persona of himself. I like a significant capital to indicate things, as well. So I was like, OK, cool. That’s a cool voice. But then Magpie does it too, and I was like, I can’t—I don’t—all right. They just sounded very similar to me. I wanted them to be a little more different.

GIN JENNY: I agree. And I think it wouldn’t have mattered so much if it were not alternating. Like if it were just two different books, I don’t think it would’ve mattered as much. But as alternating perspectives, yeah, it was definitely noticeable that they sounded pretty similar.

One thing that I really loved about this book, and again, this was a huge difference of my expectations. The premise that I thought I was getting, to win the battle of the bands and get out—the premise that I thought I was getting is about getting out a place and severing connections, essentially, to where you grew up, or weakening connections. Which I think is a really common theme, obviously, in YA fiction.

But the actual arc of the story is about greater integration with and greater understanding of their community, and I found that really lovely. And I don’t think the book arrests anyone’s forward progress. Like the book’s not saying that you can never leave the reservation. It’s just that the characters are able to see what’s valuable and meaningful about what they already have, and I thought that was a really interesting inversion of what I often see in YA, and I really liked it.

WHISKEY JENNY: Absolutely it was definitely a different take on the “I just want to get out and move to New York” story. Absolutely.

GIN JENNY: Yeah.

WHISKEY JENNY: And I also appreciated—well, I’ll say two things. There was one moment towards the end where Carson is like, oh, is this what caring for people is like? And I was like, my dude. Yes. [LAUGHTER] Like, he learns what it is to care for people, and says it out, almost, to himself. I was like, all right. [LAUGHTER]

I also really appreciated that in Carson learning more about his community and his history, me, an uneducated white reader, also got to learn more about his community and his history. And I think the book does a really good job of not making it feel like an expo dump when Carson starts talking about those things, but is still conveying information to you. And expo dumps happen all the time and are such an easy trap to fall into. So I really appreciated that.

GIN JENNY: No, I definitely agree. I thought it did a great job of all of that. It felt very organic to the plot and organic to the characters. It was really good.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah. I was going to say, we still—like, Doobie is a member of the band, and I feel like I know nothing about him.

GIN JENNY: Same. Yeah, same.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s just like, the band conceit is really not the conceit that it’s built around. It’s really not.

GIN JENNY: No, it really isn’t. Which is fine. I mean, I do like the conceit that it’s built around. I just misunderstood what it was going to be.

WHISKEY JENNY: It’s just not what I was expecting.

GIN JENNY: So one thing that I found challenging about the book overall is—and Carson talks about this. There’s a culture on the reservation of ironic detachment and humor around painful issues. Carson says it’s kind of a coping mechanism for how much shit Native people have had to deal with historically and still have to deal with, which is super valid. But it was also kind of distancing for me, because I did not—you’ll be shocked to hear this, listeners. I did not jive with the whole ironic detachment thing that was the zeitgeist of my childhood. [LAUGHTER] And I’ve been super excited that naked sincerity and enthusiasm have come back into vogue.

So that was kind of hard for me. But at the same time, I’m glad that I stuck with it, because I thought the emotional payoff of the book was considerable. Not just the relationship between the characters, but just watching the kids grow up. I felt really emotional at the end of it.

WHISKEY JENNY: Oh, absolutely. I did, too. Oh my God, when Lewis—so I guess this is a spoiler, but Lewis gets on the battle of the bands stage by himself at the beginning and just destroyed me.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. It was—and also, the last line of the book is so—I was like, oh, oh, my God. Oof.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, I agree on both points. I found it super, super emotional, but yeah, it is such a difficult coping mechanism to read about. And obviously, because as Carson says, all this shit is happening to Native people, we’re also witnessing it happening, and it’s just a difficult read in general.

GIN JENNY: One other thing I just do want to mention. There’s a really—I found it very hard to read. There’s a really, really rough scene around alcohol abuse, I guess, where Carson and Magpie have to kind of rescue Lewis’s uncle, who’s drunk. Like, even talking about it is hard for me, because it’s really, really awful. So if that’s a thing that you find hard to read about, just be aware that it’s coming. Because it was really, really difficult for me.

WHISKEY JENNY: Yeah, super difficult.

GIN JENNY: Before we leave this book, I did want to add one more thing. I’m a liberal child of liberal parents, and I read Howard Zinn in AP American History, and I thought I basically understood what white colonialism had done to the indigenous people of this continent. But I then read An Indigenous People’s History of the United States, by Roxanna Dunbar-Ortiz, and I realized there was still much that I really didn’t know. So I just want to recommend that book to everyone. I recommend it to people all the time. But it’s really good, and it’s really, really enlightening about a lot of elements in American history that a lot of white kids don’t get taught, honestly. But I think it’s our responsibility to know.

And also, Give Me Some Truth recommends Custer Died for Your Sins, by Vine Deloria Jr., which I have heard from many places is supposed to be really, really great, and I do want to read it soon.

Well, do you want to tell us what we’re reading next time?

WHISKEY JENNY: So we are picking back up something that we did for spring, which is that we are each picking a book that we would like to read for podcast from each other’s fall preview selections. You will have noticed a theme from my fall book preview, which is that I am very much into just nice joyful books right now. So the one that you talked about with heists and found families, I don’t know how you expected me to pick something else. But we will be reading Chilling Effect, by Valerie Valdes.

GIN JENNY: Cool, sounds great. I’m excited about it. I hope it’s a fun romp. Because I thought this one was going to be pretty lighthearted, and it was not. So.

WHISKEY JENNY: It really wasn’t. God, yeah. We didn’t even cover Carson’s abusive father. Jesus.

GIN JENNY: Oh my God, yeah. So I’m worried my ability to read blurbs successfully is damaged.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: I don’t think it was your ability to read the blurb. I think it was blurbed to be a fun battle of the bands book. [LAUGHTER] I think that’s how the blurb was. But I’m looking on Goodreads, and this one says hilarious and offbeat in the first sentence. So that sounds good, right?

GIN JENNY: Perfect. Yeah, no, totally.

WHISKEY JENNY: So that’s what I’m reading next time.

GIN JENNY: Awesome. That sounds wonderful.

WHISKEY JENNY: Do you know which of my books we’re going to read next time? Or next next time?

GIN JENNY: Gosh, I need to think about it. I’m going to give it some thought. A couple of them sound good, so I just need to decide what—it’ll probably come down to what I’m in the mood for next time.

WHISKEY JENNY: I’m looking forward to finding out.

GIN JENNY: Yeah. So Whiskey Jenny, we’re changing a thing. We’re doing something different.

WHISKEY JENNY: We are. Oh, yeah, we are. I didn’t know we were going to talk about it.

GIN JENNY: Should we not talk about it?

WHISKEY JENNY: No, yeah.

GIN JENNY: Just, listeners, know that we know that you’ll have noticed.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: You know I can only hear so many we know that you know that we knows. [LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: Yeah. We’re switching to a prerecorded outro, because well, it’s been a couple of years, and Whiskey Jenny and I are tired of saying the same thing every time.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: And also finding the script. Because I can’t ever keep it in a place that it’s easy to find. And I’m always like, give me—wait—hold on, where is it?

[LAUGHTER]

GIN JENNY: But yeah, all that’s changing. Pre-recorded outro from now on. It’s going to be a brave new virtually identical world.

[LAUGHTER]

WHISKEY JENNY: But we’re still going to keep a quote, because we really like that. So we’re changing up the order.

GIN JENNY: Quote first, then outro. What?

WHISKEY JENNY: Twist, I know. It’s crazy. Hopefully the universe won’t ripple. [LAUGHTER]

So as always, thank you for listening. Welcome to this brave new world. And until next time, a quote from The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club

GIN JENNY: Yay!

WHISKEY JENNY: By Dorothy Sayers. “Books, you know Charles, are like lobster shells. We surround ourselves with them, and then we grow out of them and leave them behind as evidences of our earlier stages of development.”

[GLASSES CLINK]

GIN JENNY: This has been the Reading the End Bookcast with the demographically similar Jennys. You can visit the blog at readingtheend.com. You can follow us on Twitter @readingtheend. We are both on Goodreads as Whiskey Jenny and Gin Jenny. And you can email us, we love it when you do, at readingtheend@gmail.com. If you like what we do, you can become a podcast patron at patreon.com/readingtheend. And if you’re listening to us on iTunes, please leave us a review. It helps other people find the podcast.

[THEME SONG] You don’t judge a book by its cover. Page one’s not a much better view. And shortly you’re gonna discover the middle won’t mollify you. So whether whiskey’s your go-to or you’re like my gin-drinking friend, no matter what you are imbibing, you’ll be better off in the end reading the end.