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	Comments on: Review: Titus Andronicus, William Shakespeare	</title>
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	<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/</link>
	<description>before I read the middle</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 22:31:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: bardolator23		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bardolator23]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 22:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re interested, give the play a re-read. You&#039;ll actually notice that nobody berates Aaron for his appearance until after they find him and [the MARRIED] Tamora philandering in the woods. And then, it&#039;s more of an insult to Tamora, saying that her sin is as black as his skin; his skin is not his choosing, but her sin is her choosing. Aaron, as well as the rest of the Goths, were treated relatively well considering the circumstances. He has quite a high place in the court, and is treated better by the court than Titus, who has given his life and sacrificed the lives of 20 of his kids to the state.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re interested, give the play a re-read. You&#8217;ll actually notice that nobody berates Aaron for his appearance until after they find him and [the MARRIED] Tamora philandering in the woods. And then, it&#8217;s more of an insult to Tamora, saying that her sin is as black as his skin; his skin is not his choosing, but her sin is her choosing. Aaron, as well as the rest of the Goths, were treated relatively well considering the circumstances. He has quite a high place in the court, and is treated better by the court than Titus, who has given his life and sacrificed the lives of 20 of his kids to the state.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeffrey Puukka		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeffrey Puukka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7338&quot;&gt;Jenny&lt;/a&gt;.

Aww, yes, the &quot;Aaron will have his soul black like his face&quot; business.  Yeh.  That&#039;s a sticky wicket.  But as I said, I sort of see that not as particularly racist on Shakespeare&#039;s behalf, but rather as Aaron trying to pump up his own ego.   

That said, we all see racism in different places.  And, when it comes to Shakespeare, I can see a wee bit of prejudice in &quot;The Merchant Of Venice&quot;, myself.  In &quot;Titus&quot; everyone is behaving badly, with their own agendas, if you will.  In &quot;Merchant&quot; though (from what I remember of it) it&#039;s as though some are made out to be specifically more or less honorable than others.  It&#039;s also a play that never really quite fit together into a smooth &#039;whole&#039; for me.

Keep reading and writing and sharing.  

-J.P.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7338">Jenny</a>.</p>
<p>Aww, yes, the &#8220;Aaron will have his soul black like his face&#8221; business.  Yeh.  That&#8217;s a sticky wicket.  But as I said, I sort of see that not as particularly racist on Shakespeare&#8217;s behalf, but rather as Aaron trying to pump up his own ego.   </p>
<p>That said, we all see racism in different places.  And, when it comes to Shakespeare, I can see a wee bit of prejudice in &#8220;The Merchant Of Venice&#8221;, myself.  In &#8220;Titus&#8221; everyone is behaving badly, with their own agendas, if you will.  In &#8220;Merchant&#8221; though (from what I remember of it) it&#8217;s as though some are made out to be specifically more or less honorable than others.  It&#8217;s also a play that never really quite fit together into a smooth &#8216;whole&#8217; for me.</p>
<p>Keep reading and writing and sharing.  </p>
<p>-J.P.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7338</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 15:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7338</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7337&quot;&gt;Jeffrey Puukka&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks. :)  I didn&#039;t like Titus, but this is the first time I&#039;ve read it.  I think I might change my opinion if I saw it performed.  Shakespeare&#039;s always (this is so obvious I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s even worth saying!) better in a live performance.  I&#039;d even be glad to see the Taymor film, but I can never find it at my library.  What bugged me about Aaron was the way he connected his wickedness to his race, all that heart-as-black-as-his-skin business.

I really enjoyed reading your thoughts however!  It&#039;s fun to see different points of view. :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7337">Jeffrey Puukka</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks. 🙂  I didn&#8217;t like Titus, but this is the first time I&#8217;ve read it.  I think I might change my opinion if I saw it performed.  Shakespeare&#8217;s always (this is so obvious I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s even worth saying!) better in a live performance.  I&#8217;d even be glad to see the Taymor film, but I can never find it at my library.  What bugged me about Aaron was the way he connected his wickedness to his race, all that heart-as-black-as-his-skin business.</p>
<p>I really enjoyed reading your thoughts however!  It&#8217;s fun to see different points of view. 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeffrey Puukka		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7337</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeffrey Puukka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7337</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I remember when Julie Taymore (director of &quot;FRIDA&quot; with Salma Hayek and &quot;THE LION KING&quot; on broadway.) produced/directed &quot;Titus&quot; with Anthony Hopkins.  It was to be released on Christmas Day.  25th December.  

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous. . .  The timing, I mean.  What are we going to do?  Say our prayers, eat a meal, open presents, then go see a movie about rape, madness, and cannibalism?  The planning and PR in that decision goes way beyond a dark sense of humor.

However, I have to say:  I love the play.  It may be the darkest, most demented, and as you say blood-bathy thing that Shakespeare penned, but I do find something absolutely formless and brilliant in it.  It makes me so angry at the politicians, the government, and the whole idea of regime change without a damned moment&#039;s consideration for the country or its people.  I like seeing how one ill-advised decision can snowball into the horror that &quot;Titus&quot; eventually eventually transforms into.  

Nor do I find it particularly racist. . .  I suppose one could argue that by making the one black man in the play be the bad-guy, it was a sort of racist propaganda.  However, I don&#039;t view it that way.  How much scorn and abuse and torment would Aaron have suffered?  From the Romans, from the Goths, from everyone. . .  Quite a bit, I&#039;d imagine.  So, then, doesn&#039;t it make some strange sort of sense that if he spotted a way to take revenge and turn his enemies against each other, he&#039;d do it?  --  He pumps himself up to be quite the villain with his speech at the end of the play, where he says something along the lines of &quot;my only regret is that I had not done 1000 more terrible things, bla-bla-bla&quot;, but Puck has a similar speech about terrorizing people with similar pranks in &quot;A Midsummer Night&#039;s Dream&quot;, and people adore Puck.   

At the end of the day, the characters may not have a great deal to defend themselves with, and absolutely everyone is flawed. . .  But I think I enjoy it for the same reason I enjoy &quot;King Lear&quot;.  Shakespeare is pushing the limits of humanity very, very far.  And at the same time, he&#039;s writing a thriller.  Also, some of the language is divine. . .

&lt;i&gt;O earth, I will befriend thee more with rain
That shall distill from these two ancient urns
than youthful April shall in all his showers.
In summer&#039;s drought I&#039;ll drop upon thee still,
In winter, with warm tears I&#039;ll melt the snow,
And keep eternal springtime on thy face,
So thou refuse to drink my dear son&#039;s blood.&lt;/i&gt;

I love that bit.  

And though you didn&#039;t enjoy Titus, I absolutely adored your review.  

Keep writing and sharing,

-J.P.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when Julie Taymore (director of &#8220;FRIDA&#8221; with Salma Hayek and &#8220;THE LION KING&#8221; on broadway.) produced/directed &#8220;Titus&#8221; with Anthony Hopkins.  It was to be released on Christmas Day.  25th December.  </p>
<p>I thought it was absolutely ridiculous. . .  The timing, I mean.  What are we going to do?  Say our prayers, eat a meal, open presents, then go see a movie about rape, madness, and cannibalism?  The planning and PR in that decision goes way beyond a dark sense of humor.</p>
<p>However, I have to say:  I love the play.  It may be the darkest, most demented, and as you say blood-bathy thing that Shakespeare penned, but I do find something absolutely formless and brilliant in it.  It makes me so angry at the politicians, the government, and the whole idea of regime change without a damned moment&#8217;s consideration for the country or its people.  I like seeing how one ill-advised decision can snowball into the horror that &#8220;Titus&#8221; eventually eventually transforms into.  </p>
<p>Nor do I find it particularly racist. . .  I suppose one could argue that by making the one black man in the play be the bad-guy, it was a sort of racist propaganda.  However, I don&#8217;t view it that way.  How much scorn and abuse and torment would Aaron have suffered?  From the Romans, from the Goths, from everyone. . .  Quite a bit, I&#8217;d imagine.  So, then, doesn&#8217;t it make some strange sort of sense that if he spotted a way to take revenge and turn his enemies against each other, he&#8217;d do it?  &#8212;  He pumps himself up to be quite the villain with his speech at the end of the play, where he says something along the lines of &#8220;my only regret is that I had not done 1000 more terrible things, bla-bla-bla&#8221;, but Puck has a similar speech about terrorizing people with similar pranks in &#8220;A Midsummer Night&#8217;s Dream&#8221;, and people adore Puck.   </p>
<p>At the end of the day, the characters may not have a great deal to defend themselves with, and absolutely everyone is flawed. . .  But I think I enjoy it for the same reason I enjoy &#8220;King Lear&#8221;.  Shakespeare is pushing the limits of humanity very, very far.  And at the same time, he&#8217;s writing a thriller.  Also, some of the language is divine. . .</p>
<p><i>O earth, I will befriend thee more with rain<br />
That shall distill from these two ancient urns<br />
than youthful April shall in all his showers.<br />
In summer&#8217;s drought I&#8217;ll drop upon thee still,<br />
In winter, with warm tears I&#8217;ll melt the snow,<br />
And keep eternal springtime on thy face,<br />
So thou refuse to drink my dear son&#8217;s blood.</i></p>
<p>I love that bit.  </p>
<p>And though you didn&#8217;t enjoy Titus, I absolutely adored your review.  </p>
<p>Keep writing and sharing,</p>
<p>-J.P.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bardolator23		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bardolator23]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 01:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That being said, I loooooove Aaron the bad guy. 
and yet, I think,
Few come within the compass of my curse,--
Wherein I did not some notorious ill,
As kill a man, or else devise his death,
Ravish a maid, or plot the way to do it,
Accuse some innocent and forswear myself,
Set deadly enmity between two friends,
Make poor men&#039;s cattle break their necks;
Set fire on barns and hay-stacks in the night,
And bid the owners quench them with their tears.
Oft have I digg&#039;d up dead men from their graves,
And set them upright at their dear friends&#039; doors,
Even when their sorrows almost were forgot;
And on their skins, as on the bark of trees,
Have with my knife carved in Roman letters,
&#039;Let not your sorrow die, though I am dead.&#039;


... call me morbid but it doesn&#039;t get any more genius than that!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That being said, I loooooove Aaron the bad guy.<br />
and yet, I think,<br />
Few come within the compass of my curse,&#8211;<br />
Wherein I did not some notorious ill,<br />
As kill a man, or else devise his death,<br />
Ravish a maid, or plot the way to do it,<br />
Accuse some innocent and forswear myself,<br />
Set deadly enmity between two friends,<br />
Make poor men&#8217;s cattle break their necks;<br />
Set fire on barns and hay-stacks in the night,<br />
And bid the owners quench them with their tears.<br />
Oft have I digg&#8217;d up dead men from their graves,<br />
And set them upright at their dear friends&#8217; doors,<br />
Even when their sorrows almost were forgot;<br />
And on their skins, as on the bark of trees,<br />
Have with my knife carved in Roman letters,<br />
&#8216;Let not your sorrow die, though I am dead.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8230; call me morbid but it doesn&#8217;t get any more genius than that!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7335</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 00:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7335</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7334&quot;&gt;bardolator23&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, very true.  I suppose I allowed my general dislike of this play to overshadow this point.  Which is a valid point!  Shakespeare makes good characters (mostly).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7334">bardolator23</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, very true.  I suppose I allowed my general dislike of this play to overshadow this point.  Which is a valid point!  Shakespeare makes good characters (mostly).</p>
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		<title>
		By: bardolator23		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bardolator23]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=2000#comment-7334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s something to be said for a momentary change in character. Don&#039;t forget Aaron&#039;s spirited defense of and deep love for the baby:

&#039;Zounds, ye whore! is black so base a hue?
Sweet blowse, you are a beauteous blossom, sure.

Aaron doesn&#039;t have to redeem himself to anybody, but he defends his baby. Could you ever think of Aaron defending the honour or the life of anyone but himself? Shakespeare writes the most evil of characters and in this moment, shows tenderness. There&#039;s something to be said for Shakespeare&#039;s ability to transform a one-dimensional character (in the wake of Marlowe&#039;s Jew of Malta and Tambourlaine) into a complex character. 

We see more of this later on in Shakespeare&#039;s works... consider this the blossoming bud of Shakespeare&#039;s never-before-seen talent for complex characterization.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s something to be said for a momentary change in character. Don&#8217;t forget Aaron&#8217;s spirited defense of and deep love for the baby:</p>
<p>&#8216;Zounds, ye whore! is black so base a hue?<br />
Sweet blowse, you are a beauteous blossom, sure.</p>
<p>Aaron doesn&#8217;t have to redeem himself to anybody, but he defends his baby. Could you ever think of Aaron defending the honour or the life of anyone but himself? Shakespeare writes the most evil of characters and in this moment, shows tenderness. There&#8217;s something to be said for Shakespeare&#8217;s ability to transform a one-dimensional character (in the wake of Marlowe&#8217;s Jew of Malta and Tambourlaine) into a complex character. </p>
<p>We see more of this later on in Shakespeare&#8217;s works&#8230; consider this the blossoming bud of Shakespeare&#8217;s never-before-seen talent for complex characterization.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7328&quot;&gt;litlove&lt;/a&gt;.

Ha, I should totally do that, because I really do think a lot about my future conversations in heaven.  It&#039;s going to be v. disappointing if it turns out we are all just one big squishy glob of love, or there&#039;s no life after death, or like, Shakespeare went to hell.  :P]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7328">litlove</a>.</p>
<p>Ha, I should totally do that, because I really do think a lot about my future conversations in heaven.  It&#8217;s going to be v. disappointing if it turns out we are all just one big squishy glob of love, or there&#8217;s no life after death, or like, Shakespeare went to hell.  😛</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7329&quot;&gt;Katy&lt;/a&gt;.

Oh no!  That&#039;s a really sad story!  I&#039;m trying to decide right now if I&#039;d prefer to see no production or a bad production - I think I&#039;d probably prefer to see a bad production, just to hear the words said aloud.  If that makes sense?  I never feel like a play really belongs to me until I&#039;ve seen it performed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7329">Katy</a>.</p>
<p>Oh no!  That&#8217;s a really sad story!  I&#8217;m trying to decide right now if I&#8217;d prefer to see no production or a bad production &#8211; I think I&#8217;d probably prefer to see a bad production, just to hear the words said aloud.  If that makes sense?  I never feel like a play really belongs to me until I&#8217;ve seen it performed.</p>
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		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7330&quot;&gt;Jeanne&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve seen that!  It cracks me up when they try to give each other high fives.  :P]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2010/01/08/titus-andronicus-william-shakespeare-2/#comment-7330">Jeanne</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen that!  It cracks me up when they try to give each other high fives.  😛</p>
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