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	Comments on: Review: Testosterone Rex, Cordelia Fine	</title>
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	<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/</link>
	<description>before I read the middle</description>
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		By: 12758		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-32304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[12758]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2017 20:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-32304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Her previous book Delusions of Gender was rightly criticised in the official monthly publication of The British Psychological Society by reviewer Prof Simon Baron-Cohen who wrote:

&quot;So how does she deal with experimental findings that show either prenatal or neonatal influences on sex differences? Here, her main strategy (arguing that sex differences can be made to vanish by using the trick of manipulating social psychological variables) just doesn’t apply. So she is forced to adopt a different strategy, namely, dissecting the experiments that purport to show prenatal or neonatal influences, to reveal that such experiments are flawed and therefore incorrect in their conclusions. This is Fine’s last-ditch attempt to make sex differences go away.&quot;

&quot;Being a co-author of some of these experiments I can examine her criticisms with the benefit of close knowledge of the studies she discusses, and found errors in her critiques. For example, in our newborn study (Connellan et al., 2001), which showed that girls look longer at a human face and boys look longer at a mechanical mobile, Fine attempts to dismantle this evidence by saying we should have presented both stimuli at the same time, rather than one at a time, since one at a time might have led to fatigue-effects. However, she overlooks that it was for this very reason that we included counter-balancing into the experimental design, to avoid any risk of such order-effects.&quot;

&quot;Secondly, she argues that the experimenter may not have been totally blind to the baby’s sex because there might have been ‘congratulations’ cards around the bed (‘Congratulations! It’s a boy!’). However, she overlooks that it was precisely for this reason that we included a panel of independent judges coding the videotapes of just the eye-region of the baby’s face, from which it is virtually impossible to judge the sex of the baby. Fine is right that our newborn baby study needs to be independently replicated, given its importance for establishing a human sex difference in the mind at a point in development before culture has had a chance to have any influence. But it is an example of where Fine’s scholarship shows some shortcomings, where details are overlooked in order to fit her biology-free theory of human sex differences.&quot;

&quot;Although we would all like to believe in Fine’s extreme social determinism, efforts to explain (purely in terms of social variables) why neurodevelopmental conditions like autism, learning difficulties, and language delay affect boys more often than girls lead to the ludicrous position of blaming these conditions on sexist factors in society (or in parents). And extreme social determinism has major difficulties explaining why left-handedness is more common in boys (12 per cent) than girls (8 per cent). In contrast, a moderate position that recognises that – over and above the important role of the social environment – biology may also play a small role opens up all sorts of lines of inquiry (e.g. into the effects of prenatal hormones and genes). Autism runs in families and many genes have been implicated, and it may turn out that some of these are relevant to why it is sex-linked.I have also been impressed to see consistent correlations between amniotic fetal testosterone (FT) levels and measures of social development across 10 years of follow-up studies of a cohort of typically developing children we have been tracking, whose mothers all had amniocentesis during pregnancy (Baron-Cohen et al., 2005). An extreme biological determinism would be equally ludicrous, since there is no doubt that social variables can amplify and interact with such biological effects.&quot;

&quot;Fine is of course obliged to try to find fault with these hormone studies, challenging, for example, whether FT in the amniotic fluid reflects FT in the brain. Again she overlooks that if we could measure FT in the brain in an ethical way, we would. FT in amniotic fluid is the next best ethical option, and it seems to be showing us that FT is associated with sex differences in the mind.&quot;

&quot;Ultimately, for me, the biggest weakness of Fine’s neurosexism allegation is the mistaken blurring of science with politics. Her book reads as a polemic about the implicit political bias underlying the science of sex differences. However, this ignores that you can be a scientist interested in the nature of sex differences while being a clear supporter of equal opportunities and a firm opponent of all forms of discrimination in society. One endeavour need have nothing to do with the other. Fusing science with politics is, in my view, unfounded&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her previous book Delusions of Gender was rightly criticised in the official monthly publication of The British Psychological Society by reviewer Prof Simon Baron-Cohen who wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;So how does she deal with experimental findings that show either prenatal or neonatal influences on sex differences? Here, her main strategy (arguing that sex differences can be made to vanish by using the trick of manipulating social psychological variables) just doesn’t apply. So she is forced to adopt a different strategy, namely, dissecting the experiments that purport to show prenatal or neonatal influences, to reveal that such experiments are flawed and therefore incorrect in their conclusions. This is Fine’s last-ditch attempt to make sex differences go away.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Being a co-author of some of these experiments I can examine her criticisms with the benefit of close knowledge of the studies she discusses, and found errors in her critiques. For example, in our newborn study (Connellan et al., 2001), which showed that girls look longer at a human face and boys look longer at a mechanical mobile, Fine attempts to dismantle this evidence by saying we should have presented both stimuli at the same time, rather than one at a time, since one at a time might have led to fatigue-effects. However, she overlooks that it was for this very reason that we included counter-balancing into the experimental design, to avoid any risk of such order-effects.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Secondly, she argues that the experimenter may not have been totally blind to the baby’s sex because there might have been ‘congratulations’ cards around the bed (‘Congratulations! It’s a boy!’). However, she overlooks that it was precisely for this reason that we included a panel of independent judges coding the videotapes of just the eye-region of the baby’s face, from which it is virtually impossible to judge the sex of the baby. Fine is right that our newborn baby study needs to be independently replicated, given its importance for establishing a human sex difference in the mind at a point in development before culture has had a chance to have any influence. But it is an example of where Fine’s scholarship shows some shortcomings, where details are overlooked in order to fit her biology-free theory of human sex differences.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Although we would all like to believe in Fine’s extreme social determinism, efforts to explain (purely in terms of social variables) why neurodevelopmental conditions like autism, learning difficulties, and language delay affect boys more often than girls lead to the ludicrous position of blaming these conditions on sexist factors in society (or in parents). And extreme social determinism has major difficulties explaining why left-handedness is more common in boys (12 per cent) than girls (8 per cent). In contrast, a moderate position that recognises that – over and above the important role of the social environment – biology may also play a small role opens up all sorts of lines of inquiry (e.g. into the effects of prenatal hormones and genes). Autism runs in families and many genes have been implicated, and it may turn out that some of these are relevant to why it is sex-linked.I have also been impressed to see consistent correlations between amniotic fetal testosterone (FT) levels and measures of social development across 10 years of follow-up studies of a cohort of typically developing children we have been tracking, whose mothers all had amniocentesis during pregnancy (Baron-Cohen et al., 2005). An extreme biological determinism would be equally ludicrous, since there is no doubt that social variables can amplify and interact with such biological effects.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Fine is of course obliged to try to find fault with these hormone studies, challenging, for example, whether FT in the amniotic fluid reflects FT in the brain. Again she overlooks that if we could measure FT in the brain in an ethical way, we would. FT in amniotic fluid is the next best ethical option, and it seems to be showing us that FT is associated with sex differences in the mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Ultimately, for me, the biggest weakness of Fine’s neurosexism allegation is the mistaken blurring of science with politics. Her book reads as a polemic about the implicit political bias underlying the science of sex differences. However, this ignores that you can be a scientist interested in the nature of sex differences while being a clear supporter of equal opportunities and a firm opponent of all forms of discrimination in society. One endeavour need have nothing to do with the other. Fusing science with politics is, in my view, unfounded&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Naomi		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31725</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Naomi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31725</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just read Delusions of Gender, and completely agree with you - I went in thinking I knew what she was going to say (so almost didn&#039;t even read it!), and then I found it so fascinating that I started talking about it at the supper table with my kids, who got very tired of it quickly. But hopefully they got the point. 
I didn&#039;t know she had another one out equally as wonderful!
I love this: &quot;Watching Fine take these gendered claims painstakingly, methodically, devastatingly to pieces should rank among the great works of art that humanity has ever produced.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read Delusions of Gender, and completely agree with you &#8211; I went in thinking I knew what she was going to say (so almost didn&#8217;t even read it!), and then I found it so fascinating that I started talking about it at the supper table with my kids, who got very tired of it quickly. But hopefully they got the point.<br />
I didn&#8217;t know she had another one out equally as wonderful!<br />
I love this: &#8220;Watching Fine take these gendered claims painstakingly, methodically, devastatingly to pieces should rank among the great works of art that humanity has ever produced.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alley		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31713</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31713</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Intellectual brain splatter, you say? Well now I have so many more books I have to read (well, two. Two more that I need read from this. I am ready for blown minds.)

Also A++ gif use]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intellectual brain splatter, you say? Well now I have so many more books I have to read (well, two. Two more that I need read from this. I am ready for blown minds.)</p>
<p>Also A++ gif use</p>
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		<title>
		By: Katie @ Doing Dewey		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie @ Doing Dewey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2017 05:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just read and had my mind blow by Delusions of Gender, but even though it contained occasional surprises for me throughout, I felt it got a little repetitive and so was hesitant to pick this up. Reading your review though, I&#039;ve reconsidered. I think that reading Delusions of Gender made me much better informed and able to argue against sexist stereotypes and I&#039;d love to be able to do that for the topics covered by this book as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read and had my mind blow by Delusions of Gender, but even though it contained occasional surprises for me throughout, I felt it got a little repetitive and so was hesitant to pick this up. Reading your review though, I&#8217;ve reconsidered. I think that reading Delusions of Gender made me much better informed and able to argue against sexist stereotypes and I&#8217;d love to be able to do that for the topics covered by this book as well.</p>
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		By: Katie @ Doing Dewey		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie @ Doing Dewey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2017 05:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31701&quot;&gt;Katie @ Doing Dewey&lt;/a&gt;.

Also, I love your Brooklyn 99 gifs!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31701">Katie @ Doing Dewey</a>.</p>
<p>Also, I love your Brooklyn 99 gifs!!</p>
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		By: Stefanie@SoManyBooks		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31678</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stefanie@SoManyBooks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2017 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31678</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This sounds fantastic! I hope that a) you get your brains put back in before she publishes her next book and b) get to meet her some day and possibly propose marriage.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds fantastic! I hope that a) you get your brains put back in before she publishes her next book and b) get to meet her some day and possibly propose marriage.</p>
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		<title>
		By: teresareads		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[teresareads]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2017 23:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am so glad to see this review from you right now because I have been having a quiet fume for the last 24 hours over a recent episode of This American Life all about testosterone. (It&#039;s actually from 15 years ago, but they reran it a couple of weeks ago, and I was getting caught up on my podcasts yesterday.) It played into every single stereotype you can think of without offering any sort of counternarrative. I just kept thinking this can&#039;t be right, and this is just one person&#039;s experience, perhaps born of socialization. This sounds like what I need to wash it out of my brain.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad to see this review from you right now because I have been having a quiet fume for the last 24 hours over a recent episode of This American Life all about testosterone. (It&#8217;s actually from 15 years ago, but they reran it a couple of weeks ago, and I was getting caught up on my podcasts yesterday.) It played into every single stereotype you can think of without offering any sort of counternarrative. I just kept thinking this can&#8217;t be right, and this is just one person&#8217;s experience, perhaps born of socialization. This sounds like what I need to wash it out of my brain.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kristen M.		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristen M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2017 08:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is the perfect time for you to put this in front of my eyeballs because I just read the cute little Women in Science book and was furious when it switched from &quot;here is this smart and capable woman whom everyone sat at the feet of and listened to&quot; to &quot;and once again this brilliant woman didn&#039;t get a lab/get paid/get the Nobel Prize because of society&#039;s shit&quot;. I started thinking about gender and how it wasn&#039;t possible that some things were nature because they&#039;ve done complete flip-flops through time. But if they were nurture-y, the women would have been nice and stupid and quiet like they were raised to be. My brain totally didn&#039;t want to stay in my head over this issue so I think I need to read Cordelia Fine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the perfect time for you to put this in front of my eyeballs because I just read the cute little Women in Science book and was furious when it switched from &#8220;here is this smart and capable woman whom everyone sat at the feet of and listened to&#8221; to &#8220;and once again this brilliant woman didn&#8217;t get a lab/get paid/get the Nobel Prize because of society&#8217;s shit&#8221;. I started thinking about gender and how it wasn&#8217;t possible that some things were nature because they&#8217;ve done complete flip-flops through time. But if they were nurture-y, the women would have been nice and stupid and quiet like they were raised to be. My brain totally didn&#8217;t want to stay in my head over this issue so I think I need to read Cordelia Fine.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aarti		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31673</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aarti]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2017 02:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31673</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[YESSSSSSSS.  I am so glad.  I cannot wait to have my mind blown as well and then send you a tweet that is @readingtheend Cordelia! SQUEEEEEEE!!! [bomb emoji]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YESSSSSSSS.  I am so glad.  I cannot wait to have my mind blown as well and then send you a tweet that is @readingtheend Cordelia! SQUEEEEEEE!!! [bomb emoji]</p>
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		<title>
		By: MumsyNK		</title>
		<link>https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MumsyNK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2017 00:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://readingtheend.com/?p=7914#comment-31672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31667&quot;&gt;Jenny @ Reading the End&lt;/a&gt;.

Btw, your GIF game has never been better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://readingtheend.com/2017/04/03/review-testosterone-rex-cordelia-fine/#comment-31667">Jenny @ Reading the End</a>.</p>
<p>Btw, your GIF game has never been better.</p>
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